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    <title>Sitting of 12 March 1941</title>
    <dateCreated>Wed, 12 Mar 1941 00:00:00 +0000</dateCreated>
    <ownerName>UK Parliament</ownerName>
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    <outline id='884331' text="&lt;i&gt;The House being met, the Clerk at the Table informed the House of the unavoidable absence through indisposition of&lt;/i&gt; Mr. SPEAKER &lt;i&gt;from this Day's Sitting. Whereupon&lt;/i&gt; Sir DENNIS HERBERT, the CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS, &lt;i&gt;proceeded to the Table and, after Prayers, took the Chair as&lt;/i&gt; DEPUTY-SPEAKER, &lt;i&gt;pursuant to the Standing Order.&lt;/i&gt;" title='Preamble' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/preamble'></outline>
    <outline id='884332' text='PRIVATE BUSINESS.'>
      <outline id='884334' text='Read a Second time, and committed.' title='LAND DRAINAGE PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/land-drainage-provisional-order-bill'></outline>
    </outline>
    <outline id='884385' text='ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.'>
      <outline id='884388' text='Sir Irving Alberyasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he receives regular reports from our representatives in neutral countries upon the measures taken to control the frontiers, and ensure that no Italian troops pass into neutral territory?&lt;br/&gt;The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Butler): From information received, I have no reason to doubt that any Italian troops who might pass into neutral countries would be dealt with in accordance with international law.&lt;br/&gt;Sir I. Albery: Has the right hon. Gentleman any information to the effect that Italian troops are passing into neutral territory?' title='NEUTRAL COUNTRIES (ITALIAN TROOPS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/neutral-countries-italian-troops'></outline>
      <outline id='884389' text='CHINA.'>
        <outline id='884391' text="Mr. Hannahasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that the free use of Canton is still not permitted to British shipping and that&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1256&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;repeated attempts since the spring of 1939 to re-open the waterway have been frustrated by Janaese obstruction on various pretexts; that British ships can only be run at a loss owing to the high pilotage tariff fixed by the Japanese; and whether he will discuss with the Board of Trade the possibility of imposing retaliatory measures on Japanese shipping in British ports?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Butler: The shipping situation at Canton is governed by an agreement with the Japanese which permits weekly visits by British ships subject to certain conditions. Various offers for the re-opening of the river by stages have been made by the Japanese, but the conditions attached to them have rendered them valueless to the British interests concerned. Negotiations have been in progress for some time but without result, and representations have been made to the Japanese Government. His Majesty's Government have under constant review such measures as it may be possible to take to remedy the existing situation, and a report on the latest position has been called for." title='BRITISH SHIPPING (CANTON).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/british-shipping-canton'></outline>
        <outline id='884392' text="Mr. Hannahasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will call for a report from our Consular officers on conditions under which trade is done at Shanghai, with special reference to the allegations of a widespread system of illicit commissions and bribery exacted by Japanese officials as the price of permitting goods to pass?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Butler: His Majesty's Government have been kept fully informed about trade conditions in Shanghai. The position was explained in the reply to the hon. and gallant Member for Wirral (Captain Graham) on 29th January. As regards the allegation of a widespread system of illicit commissions and bribery, I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply on the same subject on 26th February.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hannah: Is not the whole position in Shanghai extremely unsatisfactory?" title='TRADE CONDITIONS, SHANGHAI.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/trade-conditions-shanghai'></outline>
        <outline id='884393' text='Mr. Hannahasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been drawn to a seven-point programme prepared by the Peking Anti-British Association operating in the four&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0635"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1257&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;provinces of Northern China; of what this programme consists; and whether the association has been started by, or supported and encouraged by, the Japanese authorities in the occupied area, either directly or indirectly?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Butler: Yes, Sir. There has recently been some revival of agitation by the Anti-British Committee in Peking. The programme of the committee includes such activities as warning Chinese landlords to give notice to British tenants, investigating British goods and trade, bringing pressure to bear on those in British employment to leave and an intensification of anti-British propaganda generally. There is no proof that the movement receives the direct support of the Japanese authorities, but anti-British speeches have been made over the Peking central broadcasting station, which is Japanese-controlled. The movement does not appear to have assumed any degree of importance, but further developments will, of course, be closely watched.' title='ANTI-BRITISH COMMITTEE, PEKING.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/anti-british-committee-peking'></outline>
      </outline>
      <outline id='884394' text='PALESTINE.'>
        <outline id='884395' text='Mr. Wedgwoodasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any progress is being made in the exchange of internees in Germany and Palestine; and, in particular, whether he will consider enlisting the good offices of the United States of America Government in the matter?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Butler: I would refer the right hon. Gentleman to the reply given yesterday on this subject.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Wedgwood: Will the right hon. Gentleman send me a copy?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Butler: Yes, Sir.' title='GERMAN INTERNEES.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/german-internees'></outline>
        <outline id='884396' text="Mr. Creech Jonesasked the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies whether he can now make a statement regarding the Palestine citrus industry?&lt;br/&gt;The Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies (Mr. George Hall): His Majesty's Government recognise the need of the Palestine citrus industry for assistance in the situation caused by the loss of its normal export markets during the present season and have approved in&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1258&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;principle proposals designed both to maintain employment and to preserve in being a reasonable proportion of the matured and fully efficient groves. At the same time encouragement is being given to other lines of agricultural production, particularly the local production of foodstuffs. Details are being worked out with the High Commissioner for Palestine and when these are completed an announcement will be made." title='CITRUS INDUSTRY.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/citrus-industry'></outline>
      </outline>
      <outline id='884397' text='Mr. Wedgwoodasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been drawn to attacks on this country by the French official wireless, apropos of Joan of Arc, and to the reported fitting out of German raiders in Japanese ports; and whether he will consider some more effective answer than protests to such hostile actions?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Butler: As the right hon. Gentleman may be aware, all broadcasts from France are subject to direct or indirect German control. It is one of the principal functions of British broadcasts to refute such misstatements as may be made. As for the action which should be taken if it is proved that German raiders are assisted by non-belligerent Powers, this is a defence matter which it would obviously not be in the public interest to discuss.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Wedgwood: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the policy of appeasement has failed, and that we must make these countries as afraid of us as they are of the Germans?' title='FRENCH BROADCASTS.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/french-broadcasts'></outline>
      <outline id='884398' text='ROYAL AIR FORCE.'>
        <outline id='884399' text='Sir I. Alberyasked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will consider reducing the number of commissions given to sergeant-pilots when first completing their training, and increase the percentage at present made available for promoting sergeants already on active service?&lt;br/&gt;The Secretary of State for Air (Sir Archibald Sinclair): Under the present system all suitable sergeant-pilots who are recommended for commissioning after joining operational squadrons do in fact receive commissions. I do not think,&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0636"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1259&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;therefore, that the arrangements can be varied with advantage. They already ensure that conduct and efficiency on active service are taken fully into account.&lt;br/&gt;Sir I. Albery: Am I to understand that only a certain percentage of sergeant-pilots can be recommended for commissions?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Sinclair: Yes, but my answer conveys a more accurate impression of the situation than the suggestion that the hon. Gentleman has just made.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Noel-Baker: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider that there is a considerable number of sergeant-pilots with long service and pre-war experience who are not receiving promotion, while other new officers with much less experience are put over their heads?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Sinclair: Whether or not a sergeant is suitable for promotion is a matter which we must leave to the judgment of the commanding officer. There is ample room for promotion for sergeants who have the necessary qualifications.' title='COMMISSIONS (SERGEANT-PILOTS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/commissions-sergeant-pilots'></outline>
      </outline>
      <outline id='884400' text="Mr. Edmund Harveyasked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any arrangement has yet been made, or is about to be made, for consultation between the managements of the mines and representatives of the Government, together with representatives of the Northern Rhodesia Mine Workers' Union, with regard to the extension of opportunities to African workers to advance to positions not now open to them?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. George Hall: As the hon. Member is no doubt aware, it was indicated in the Statement by the Government of Northern Rhodesia on the recommendations of the Commission, that Government hoped to initiate discussions on this question. My Noble Friend is not aware whether arrangements have yet been made for the opening of the discussions, but inquiry is being made of the Governor.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Harvey: In view of the great importance of this to the future of Africans, will the hon. Gentleman take steps to see that the Government of Northern Rhodesia are requested not to delay these negotiations?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: Yes, Sir.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Creech Jones: Will the Government throw the whole of their weight against colour discrimination and the practice of the colour bar in this area?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: I think it is necessary to make it quite clear that the Colonial Office and the Government do not stand for the colour bar either in this country or in any of the Colonies.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Harveyasked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Government has approved the recommendation of the Commission to inquire into the disturbances in the Northern Rhodesian copperbelt that shade trees should be planted in the mining compounds and that facilities should be afforded to the African worker for gardening in his leisure hours; and what steps are being taken to implement these recommendations?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: My Noble Friend is not in possession of the views of the Governor on this particular recommendation. His views are being sought, and further consideration will be given to the matter when they are received.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Maxton: Do I understand that white miners live in compounds?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: No, I do not think so, but, to make quite sure, perhaps the hon. Member will put a Question down." title='NORTHERN RHODESIA (AFRICANMINE WORKERS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/northern-rhodesia-africanmine-workers'></outline>
      <outline id='884401' text='Mr. Sorensenasked the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that the office of the West African Youth League in Freetown, Sierra Leone, was raided last autumn by Government authorities; whether he will state the ground for the raid; and whether the documents seized have now been returned to the owners?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. George Hall: The only occasion on which the office of the West African Youth League was searched by the police during 1940 was on 12th June. This was on a warrant issued under Regulation 101 (2) of the Sierra Leone Defence Regulations, No. 11 of 1940, which provides for the entry and search of premises where there is reasonable ground to suspect that a war offence has&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0637"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1261&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;been or is being committed. The Acting Governor reports that the search was properly authorised and executed, and that nothing was removed from the premises by any officer or member of the police force in the course of the search.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Sorensen: Was it found, as a result of the search, that the suspicions were justified?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: I think my hon. Friend may assume that it was so, in so far as no documents were found.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Sorensen: Do I understand that the suspicions were not justified?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: I think my hon. Friend can take it that that is so.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Wedgwood: What were the suspicions? Were they thought to be Communists or Fascists?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: I could not say without notice.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. de Rothschild: What was the result of the investigation?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: I think it can be assumed that the police were satisfied that their suspicion was unfounded.' title='WEST AFRICAN YOUTH LEAGUE.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/west-african-youth-league'></outline>
      <outline id='884402' text='Mr. Sorensenasked the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies whether he will give any information as to the number of interned refugees from Nazi oppression who are in the Colonies; whether discrimination is made between them and Nazi sympathisers; whether they have the right of application for release similar to that established in this country; and whether he is satisfied with the conditions and circumstances of internment?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. George Hall: The approximate number of German nationals at present interned in the Colonies who claim to possess anti-Nazi sympathies, so far as it can be ascertained from the information available in the Colonial Office, is 340. With regard to the question of discrimination betwen anti-Nazi refugees and Nazi sympathisers, Colonial Governments are aware of the policy adopted in the United Kingdom, and so far as is practic-&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1262&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;able such discrimination is made. Internees can appeal against their internment to the Government, but some Colonial Governments have not felt able, in view of the special circumstances of the territory, to adopt a policy of release similar to that adopted in the United Kingdom. With regard to the last part of the Question, my Noble Friend is satisfied that, so far as conditions of internment are concerned, due care is taken to mitigate the hardships involved.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Sorensen: Have any, in fact, been released from internment? Will my hon. Friend take particular note of the conditions of internees in Cyprus? Will he look into the whole question and see that at least a fair proportion of those who have been interned are able to apply for their release in the same way as internees in this country?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: They can apply for their cases to be considered by Advisory Committees, and a number have been released on such applications.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Wedgwood: My hon. Friend said in his reply that they could not be released because the conditions were not the same as in this country. I should like to know whether they are having the same treatment as internees in this country?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: I am afraid that my right hon. Friend has not quite understood the reply. I said that internees can appeal against their internment to the Government, but some Colonial Governments have not felt able, in view of the special circumstances of the territory, to adopt a policy of release similar to that adopted in the United Kingdom.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Wedgwood: Can my hon. Friend say who these Governments are?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: Yes, Sir, if my right hon. Friend will put a Question down.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Sorensen: Will my hon. Friend look into the conditions of internees in Cyprus?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall&lt;i&gt;indicated assent.&lt;/i&gt;' title='COLONIES (GERMAN INTERNEES).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/colonies-german-internees'></outline>
      <outline id='884403' text='Mr. David Adamsasked the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware, that after the destruction by earthquake in 1939 of large numbers of&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0638"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1263&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;houses in Accra, Gold Coast Colony, the Gold Coast Government compelled the native chiefs of Accra to sign an indenture conveying their lands to it as security for the erection of new houses, street-works, etc., instead of effecting these works by the town council secured by loans upon the municipal revenues; and what steps have been taken to guarantee the return to the respective chiefs of their lands compulsorily taken from them?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. George Hall: It is not the case that the chiefs concerned were compelled to convey lands to the Gold Coast Government as security for the erection of buildings, etc. The cost of the Accra rehousing scheme was borne by Government, but the only suitable land was the property of the Ga Chiefdoms, whose representatives agreed to its conveyance to Government for the purposes of this scheme on conditions which were embodied in a formal indenture. The resources of the Accra Town Council even in normal conditions are only sufficient to meet their recurrent expenditure. The financing of the rehousing scheme by loans secured upon the municipal revenues would not therefore, have been possible.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Adams: Is it not a fact that the chiefs in question were advised that unless they voluntarily handed over their land it would be taken from them compulsorily under the regulations? Would the Minister be good enough to answer my Question as to whether this land is to be returned to the chiefs?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: From the information we have received the land was transferred voluntarily under an agreement that the land should be used for this purpose.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Adams: Do I understand that they handed over this land voluntarily, free of charge?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: I am not sure as to the cost, but it was agreed between the chiefs and the Government that the land should be used for this purpose.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. McGovern: Will the hon. Gentle-can encourage landlords in this country to hand over land for housing purposes free?' title='GOLD COAST (RE-HOUSING, ACCRA)' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/gold-coast-re-housing-accra'></outline>
      <outline id='884404' text="Mr. Creech Jonesasked the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1264&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;whether, in view of the recent discussions with the Governor of Jamaica, he is now able to make a statement on the Constitution of Jamaica?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. David Adamsasked the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that considerable unrest exists in Jamaica owing to the fear that a new constitution is to be formulated for the island upon the model of the new Trinidad Constitution and that representative meetings of citizens have demanded a constitution which will gradually lead to, and automatically introduce at the end of a specified period, full self-government within the framework of the British Commonwealth and that no Constitution be granted without previous popular vote of the country; and whether steps are being taken upon these lines?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. George Hall: I am now prepared to make a statement on the Constitution of Jamaica. As the statement is rather long, I will, with my hon. Friends' permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT. I am also placing in the Library of the House copies of my Noble Friend's despatch to the Governor of Jamaica setting out the proposals in full. The proposals will be placed before the Legislative Council for discussion.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Creech Jones: In view of the great importance of this constitutional development in our Colonial Empire, could the statement be read at the end of Questions?&lt;br/&gt;Hon. Members: Hear, hear.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: I am in the hands of Mr. Deputy-Speaker and the House. The statement is rather long, but if it is the desire of the House, I will read it.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Riley: Will the proposed Constitution be submitted to the House for consideration before it is put into operation?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Deputy-Speaker: If the statement is to be read at the end of Questions, we had better have further Supplementary Questions then.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Wedgwood: In view of the great importance of this matter, cannot we have an opportunity of debating it?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That does not arise now, as the statement will be read at the end of Questions.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;All the end of Questions&amp;#x2014;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Mr. George Hall: To meet the desire of the House, I will now read the answer to Questions 17 and 18 regarding constitutional changes in Jamaica. In recent years, there has been in Jamaica a demand for a reform of the Constitution to enable the people to take a greater part in the business of Government. The West India Royal Commission heard a good deal of evidence on constitutional questions, and recommended that the object of policy should be the introduction of universal adult suffrage in the West Indies, though they were not able to generalise as to the speed at which the change should be carried out. In Jamaica, there is a Legislative Council consisting of the Governor as President, five ex-officio members, nominated members not exceeding 10, and 14 elected members. Property qualifications are required both for membership of the Council and for the right to vote.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;Proposals for reform based on the recommendations of the West India Royal Commission have been discussed with the Governor of Jamaica, who was recently in this country, and, as a result, the following changes are recommended:&amp;#x2014;&#x000A;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li&gt;(1) Universal adult suffrage.&lt;/li&gt;&#x000A;&lt;li&gt;(2) An enlarged Legislative. Council to comprise approximately double the present number of elected members, with nominated members, and three(instead of five) ex-officio members, the total number to be not less than 40.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&#x000A;Two difficulties in carrying out these changes are the absence of trustworthy statistics of population and the standard of local government which has resulted in unsatisfactory social services. The Governor is, therefore, being requested to consider the carrying-out of a census as early as possible and to reorganise local government. Until this is done, and elections are held on the new franchise, the reconstitution of the Legislative Council proposed above cannot take place.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;There are, however, changes that can be made forthwith:&amp;#x2014;Official representation in the Legislative Council to be confined to the Colonial Secretary, the Treasurer and the Attorney-General. Resulting vacancies to be filled by nominations, in which care is taken to ensure that all important sections and interests&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1266&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;of the community receive adequate representation. Concurrently with the reduction of the official representation, the Governor's powers to be in some degree enlarged, but the special powers of veto at present held by the elected members to be retained. The Governor's overriding powers would be sufficient to carry any measure considered expedient in the interests of public order, public faith, or good government. If these changes are accepted by the Legislative Council of Jamaica, it is proposed that the Governor should withdraw from the Presidency of the Council and be replaced by a Speaker, who would be appointed by the Governor in the first instance and later be elected by the Council, subject to presentation to the Governor for approval. These proposals are being placed before the Legislative Council for discussion.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Creech Jones: May I congratulate my hon. Friend and the Secretary of State on this very big constitutional change, and express the hope that the confidence that the Government have placed in the people of Jamaica will be justified by events?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Sorensen: Will my hon. Friend make clear what is the basis of the franchise? Will it be literacy?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: It will be adult universal suffrage.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Riley: Will the property qualification for members of the Council be retained?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Hall: It is intended that that should be abolished.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. David Adams: May I say that this great change will give the greatest satisfaction in Jamaica and in the Colonial Empire generally?&lt;br/&gt;Several Hon. Members&lt;i&gt;rose&lt;/i&gt;&amp;#x2014;&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I do not think that this is an occasion for debating the statement that the hon. Gentleman has made." title='JAMAICA (CONSTITUTION).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/jamaica-constitution'></outline>
      <outline id='884405' text='Mr. Lipsonasked the Minister of Transport how many of those employed by his Ministry and in receipt of salaries&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0640"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1267&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;of &amp;#x00A3;600 a year and over have had previous experience in industrial transport management?&lt;br/&gt;The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport (Mr. Montague): Thirteen officers employed in the Ministry of Transport with salaries of &amp;#x00A3;600 a year and over have had direct experience in industrial transport management. There are a further 15 officers with such salaries who have served in the offices or on the accounting or engineering staffs of transport undertakings.' title='MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (STAFF).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/ministry-of-transport-staff'></outline>
      <outline id='884406' text='TRANSPORT.'>
        <outline id='884407' text="Mr. David Adamsasked the Minister of Transport whether the appeal to housewives of the country to finish with transport by 4 o'clock in order to leave omnibuses, tramcars and trains free for war workers has proved successful or whether further steps will be required?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Montague: It is too early yet to judge the full effect of the appeal, but I understand that it has already had a good response.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Adams: Is the Minister aware that there are bitter complaints by workers in munition factories on Tyneside about the facilities for going to and from their work between five and six?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Montague: I am not aware of that, but the response may differ in various parts of the country. We have had many reports from our representative to the other effect." title='TRAFFIC FACILITIES (APPEAL TO HOUSEWIVES).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/traffic-facilities-appeal-to-housewives'></outline>
        <outline id='884408' text='Sir John Graham Kerrasked the Minister of Transport whether he will make further inquiry into the series of accidents to persons following the prescribed route to platforms 14 and 15 at Euston Station during periods of blackout, including one or more seamen proceeding to join their ships on the Clyde, a distinguished professor of the Royal Technical College, Glasgow, and a high Civil Service official; and, as these accidents show the inadequacy of whitening the edge of the platform as a safeguard at this particular danger-spot, what steps he proposes to take in the matter?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Montague: Following an inspection of the conditions at the places in question on platforms 13, 14 and 15 at Euston Station, it has been decided to place movable barriers there. I hope that these will prove effective in preventing any more accidents at these points.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Robert Gibson: Will ray hon. Friend keep in mind that this danger is acute where the platform is under a roof?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Montague: Many Members know the difficulty of the change-over at Euston Station, and we hope that this measure will prevent accidents in future.' title='EUSTON STATION (SAFETY MEASURES).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/euston-station-safety-measures'></outline>
        <outline id='884409' text="Mr. Leachasked the Minister of Transport whether his attention has been drawn to the exorbitant prices for new and second-hand motor-cars now being demanded by dealers, many of whom are speculating in these goods because of the high profit now possible; and, as most of the purchasers are people who require motor-cars for occupational purposes, and cannot afford the high prices demanded, will he consider instituting price control of motor vehicles?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Montague: I am aware that in some cases excessive prices have been charged by dealers both for new and second-hand motor-cars, although some new cars have been sold at manufacturers' list prices. Control of the prices of the few new cars available would have little practical effect, while control of prices of second-hand cars present serious difficulties&amp;#x2014;both on account of widely differing conditions of car-worthiness and on administrative grounds. My right hon. Friend is therefore not satisfied that price control is justified, but he will always be ready to look into any established instances in which excessive prices are demanded and to take such action as is possible and appears to be warranted.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Leach: Will my hon. Friend go further into this matter and, if he discovers that profiteering is wholesale and almost universal, take some measures to deal with it?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Montague: Certainly, Sir.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Sorensen: Cannot a pre-war standard of prices be established for second-hand cars?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Montague: That is a difficulty which I pointed out in my answer&amp;#x2014;the difference in the conditions of the cars when sold. We will look into the question very closely.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. McGhee: Is it not true that the motor trade has had a standard of prices for second-hand cars for years?" title='MOTOR-CAR PRICES.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/motor-car-prices'></outline>
      </outline>
      <outline id='884410' text='Sir Stanley Reedasked the Minister of Transport whether his attention has been called to the increase in hire charges by certain London electrical companies on the ground of the higher cost of materials, maintenance, etc.; and whether he has satisfied himself that these charges are justified?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Montague: I am making inquiries and will communicate with my hon. Friend as soon as possible.' title='ELECTRICITY SUPPLY (CHARGES, LONDON).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/electricity-supply-charges-london'></outline>
      <outline id='884411' text='MINISTRY OF INFORMATION.'>
        <outline id='884412' text="Mr. McGovernasked the Minister of Information whether he will set up a committee to inquire into the policy adopted by the British Broadcasting Corporation of refusing to allow persons having pacifist views to broadcast?&lt;br/&gt;The Minister of Information (Mr. Duff Cooper): No, Sir.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. McGovern: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the growing anxiety among a large number of people in this country at the exclusion of people from the microphone&amp;#x2014;that on account of their pacifist views they are not allowed to broadcast music and literature? Is he aware that there is this growing anxiety among people, many of whom support this war and think it is a great contradiction that we should be pretending to fight for liberty and at the same time adopting Nazi methods at the B.B.C.?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: I am replying later to a Question by the hon. Member for Derby (Mr. Noel-Baker) on the whole subject, and perhaps the hon. Member will wait for that Question to be reached.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Liddall: Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that 90 per cent. of our people do not want to listen to pacifists?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Minister of Information whether he has come to a decision as to the policy to be followed in future by the British Broadcasting Corporation in connection with the non-employment of artistes holding certain political or religious opinions?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: It has been the policy of the B.B.C. not to invite to the microphone persons who have taken part in public agitation against the national war effort. I see no reason why the Governors should be asked to revise this policy.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Noel-Baker: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider again whether this principle ought to apply to artistes who are not expressing opinions in any way whatever, and if he does not feel able to ask the B.B.C. to reconsider the principle, will he at least ask them to reconsider the cases connected with the People's Convention, where their decision served no useful purpose and simply gave advertisement to a current of opinion which commands no national support or even respect?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: Yes, Sir. I think some confusion arose over the People's Convention Many of those who attended it did so without any reprehensible motive. I have asked the Governors of the B.B.C. to reconsider those cases, and they have consented to do so. On the general question, I would say that in my opinion it is not the business of the B.B.C. to ascertain what are the private opinions of artistes, but when artistes, apart from their artistic activities, take an active part in public agitations, then they must expect not to be given the great privilege, for it is a privilege and not a right, of being employed by the B.B.C.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Lipson: Will my right hon. Friend make it clear that there is no discrimination so far as religious opinions are concerned?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: That is so.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Maxton: Have we not a right to expect from the B.B.C, a publicly-owned corporation, the same kind of freedom for its employ&amp;#x00E9;s as is granted by a privately-owned newspaper?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: That is an entirely different matter.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Maxton: I hope so.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Kenneth Lindsay: Does the right hon. Gentleman confirm the view expressed by the Lord Privy Seal yesterday that there should be no discrimination and the statement that that was the attitude of the Government?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: My right hon. Friend was speaking about the right of free speech. Certainly there should be no discrimination against people expressing views which may not be popular. Everybody has the right of free speech, but not everybody has a right to expect the privilege of exercising free speech through the B.B.C." title='BROADCASTING POLICY (POLITICAL OPINIONS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/broadcasting-policy-political-opinions'></outline>
        <outline id='884414' text='Mr. Vernon Bartlettasked the Minister of Information whether, in order to assure that the British Broadcasting Corporation should benefit from the advice of a thoroughly representative Board of Governors, he will consider reinstating the five Governors who were dismissed on the outbreak of the war?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Lindsayasked the Minister of Information how many full-time Governors are now attached to the British Broadcasting Corporation; and whether, in view of the importance of preserving its representative character even in war-time, he will revert to the practice advised by its charter and re-appoint two or three additional men and women of wide public experience to strengthen the present composition of the governing body?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: There are at present two Governors of the B.B.C. The appointment has never been a full-time one. The reasons for reducing the number on the outbreak of war were stated by the late Prime Minister on 22nd September, 1939, and re-affirmed by the Lord Privy Seal on 28th May, 1940. There appears to be no reason for a departure from this policy.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bartlett: Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that this "rump" Board of Governors does, in fact, wield considerable influence upon the policy of the B.B.C, and could he not see either that&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1272&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;the Board of Governors is abolished altogether or so reorganised that it does represent public opinion?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: I am quite prepared to consider the possibility of reorganising or increasing the Board of Governors. The reasons given by the Lord Privy Seal in May last were, I think, the same as those given by the late Prime Minister, primarily that in order to expedite the despatch of business it was thought better to have a small rather than a large number on the Board; and the hon. Member will recollect that members of the Board of Governors of their own volition resigned; but, as I have said, I am prepared to consider the question.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Noel-Baker: Is it not a fact that the reasons given.previously have now ceased to hold good, while there are the strongest reasons of public policy why the Board of Governors should be more fully representative?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Lindsay: Is it not true that one of the main reasons for reducing the numbers was the difficulty of the Board meeting, but meetings are now being held all over the country, and is it not important to fortify the Board of Governors, in view of the many important decisions which will have to be made in the coming year?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: I have already informed my hon. Friend that I am looking into this matter.&lt;br/&gt;Sir I. Albery: Will my right hon. Friend also bear in mind that advisory committees on which this House was represented have also ceased to function?&lt;br/&gt;Colonel Arthur Evans: Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that foreign countries find great difficulty in differentiating between the responsibility of the B.B.C. and the responsibility of the Government, and will he reconsider his decision not to take over responsibility himself?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: I think the hon. and gallant Member is aware that the Government have recently appointed two official advisers to the B.B.C, one for home and one for foreign affairs, which will, no doubt, increase the control exercised by the Government. The Government&apos;s policy has been to maintain the independence of the B.B.C, and I think that decision has general approval.' title='B.B.C. (BOARD OF GOVERNORS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/bbc-board-of-governors'></outline>
        <outline id='884415' text='Mr. Bartlettasked the Minister of Information whether his attention has been drawn to delays in the transmission of letters by air mail between the United States of America and this country; and how far the delays are due to the censorship of those letters in Bermuda?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: Yes, Sir, I am aware of the delays in the transmission of letters by air mail between the United States of America and this country. These delays are due to the irregular working of the air service operated by the Pan-American Airways between Lisbon and New York, which in turn is due to adverse weather conditions. No part of the delay is due to censorship of letters in Bermuda. The censorship authorities in Bermuda do not remove, or deal with, any mail between this country and the United States. That mail is entirely censored in London, and the delay due to this cause rarely exceeds 24 hours.' title='AIR MAILS, GREAT BRITAIN-UNITED STATES.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/air-mails-great-britain-united-states'></outline>
        <outline id='884416' text="Mr. R. Gibsonasked the Minister of Information whether he is aware that omnibus companies are refusing to supply to compilers of periodical publications of information of local interest particulars regarding times of omnibus services; and whether he will take steps to ensure that these particulars arc made available speedily and without restriction in the public interest?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: My attention had not previously been drawn to this matter. If the hon, and learned Member will kindly give me detailed information, I will gladly make investigations with the other Departments concerned.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Gibson: Has the right hon. Gentleman's Department not got information with regard to a particular case in my own constituency?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: No, Sir. I should be glad to receive it and will then look into it." title='OMNIBUS SERVICES (PERIODICAL PUBLICATIONS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/omnibus-services-periodical-publications'></outline>
        <outline id='884417' text='Mr. Gallacherasked the Postmaster-General whether he has examined into the reason for the delay of a letter posted in Belfast on 30th January and delivered in London on 3rd March, the envelope of which has been sent to him&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1274&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;by the hon. Member for West Fife; and whether he will take steps to ensure that censorship operations shall not hold up correspondence for such a length of time?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Cooper: I have been asked to reply. I have not yet been able to establish the reasons for the delay, but I can assure the hon. Member that all steps are being taken to avoid such delays in future.' title='POSTAL CENSORSHIP.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/postal-censorship'></outline>
      </outline>
      <outline id='884420' text='POST OFFICE.'>
        <outline id='884421' text='Mr. Sorensenasked the Postmaster-General whether he has taken any action respecting the inaccurate statement in Post Office advertisements that the noon post will get letters delivered first thing next morning in England and Wales?&lt;br/&gt;The Postmaster-General (Mr. W. S. Morrison): I am not aware that the statements referred to are substantially inaccurate, although in prevailing circumstances and in view of the great number of letters handled there will always be individual cases of failure to secure due course connections. If the hon. Member will let me have the covers of any letters which have been posted in London before noon and have failed to secure delivery in England or Wales first thing next morning, I will have inquiry made.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Sorensen: While I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his reply, is he not aware that one advertisement of the Post Office states quite definitely that letters posted before noon will get to any part of England or Wales the next morning, and that that is not always the case? Would it not be better to be a little more strict in the wording of the advertisement?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Morrison: I think the public generally recognise that in the prevailing circumstances there are occasions when there is interruption of transport. The statement itself is substantially accurate, and my answer is founded on a careful check.' title='LETTERS (DELIVERY).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/letters-delivery'></outline>
        <outline id='884424' text='Sir Cooper Rawsonasked the Postmaster-General whether he will give permission for the postmen of Brighton and Hove, when delivering letters, to distribute, over a period of two or three days, a joint pamphlet from the Mayors of Brighton and Hove urging the inhabitants&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0644"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1275&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;to support the war weapons week, in view of the fact that the postmen are anxious to co-operate, without any extra cost to the State, and thus contribute to the successful results of the campaign?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. W. S. Morrison: Much as I sympathise with the object of this appeal and appreciate the public spirit of the local postmen at Brighton and Hove, I regret that I am prevented by Statute from meeting the hon. Member&apos;s request. I am not empowered to accord free postage to anyone.&lt;br/&gt;Sir C. Rawson: While thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply, may I ask whether it is not a fact that any legislation can be got through in this country within 24 hours? [HON. MEMBERS: "No"] After all, we want the money.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Morrison: I feel that the House is in general agreed that we ought to confine legislation to essential matters, in present circumstances.' title='WAR WEAPONS WEEK, BRIGHTON AND HOVE (PAMPHLETS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/war-weapons-week-brighton-and-hove'></outline>
        <outline id='884426' text='Colonel Arthur Evansasked the Postmaster-General whether, in gratitude for the magnificent achievements of the troops in the Middle East, he will arrange further concessions for the sending of cables and parcels; whether, in this connection, he will consider granting free postage on parcels, as in the last war, and cheaper air mail; and whether, as the spasmodic delivery of mails and lack of news of their families, due to bad communications, are causing unnecessary worry to the men, he will investigate the whole circumstances to see whether something can be done to expedite and improve delivery?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. W. S. Morrison: The possibility of improving communications with the troops in the Middle East and, in particular, of introducing a cheaper air mail service, is being actively considered by my own Department and the other Departments concerned, and I hope to be able to make a statement shortly. My hon. and gallant Friend is under a misapprehension in supposing that in the last war parcels for the troops were accepted free of postage. The rates for parcels are, in fact, lower in this war than in the last.' title='CABLES AND PARCELS (TROOPS, MIDDLE EAST).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/cables-and-parcels-troops-middle-east'></outline>
      </outline>
      <outline id='884428' text='ROYAL NAVY.'>
        <outline id='884432' text='Mr. Garro Jonesasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether, having regard to the long periods of time spent at sea by various naval ranks and grades, he is satisfied that proper arrangements exist for interchange with depot and other shore personnel in suitable cases?&lt;br/&gt;The Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty (Sir Victor Warrender): Yes, Sir. There is an adequate organisation for ensuring that all ratings are given a fair share of sea and shore service, so far as the needs of the Service permit. It will be realised that many men are, by age or disability, employable on shore service only.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Garro Jones: Will the hon. Baronet keep in mind that some hon. Members representing maritime constituencies have received complaints that this organisation is not working effectively, and will he do what he can to ensure that there is more effective organisation?&lt;br/&gt;Sir V. Warrender: Yes, Sir. I shall be glad to look into the matter.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. R. Gibson: Is the Minister investigating the complaints which I sent to his Department, referring particularly to the position of old men who joined up at the beginning of the war?&lt;br/&gt;Sir V. Warrender: Yes, Sir, although that is rather a different question.' title='SEA AND SHORE SERVICE (INTERCHANGE).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/sea-and-shore-service-interchange'></outline>
        <outline id='884437' text="Mr. Wedgwoodasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether, as anti-Nazi women aliens of German-Jewish origin are now being admitted on like terms with British to the ranks of the Auxiliary Territorial Service and the air-raid precautions Services, he will now permit approved cases to enter the Women's Royal Naval Service?&lt;br/&gt;Sir V. Warrender: So long as there continues to be a satisfactory number of British recruits for the W.R.N.S. my right hon. Friend feels bound to give preference to women of British nationality. The Admiralty, however, in specific cases, would not debar women with specially suitable qualifications on account of nationality. This question is being kept tinder review in the light of the recruiting position.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Wedgwood: Am I to understand from the Minister's answer that there is a bar against these women in the Navy which does not exist in the other Forces of the Crown, and, if so, why?&lt;br/&gt;Sir V. Warrender: No, Sir. I have said that there is no definite bar against them, providing they have special qualifications, but in view of the fact that we have no difficulty whatever in obtaining recruits for this Service, my right hon. Friend thinks that it is better to give preference to British women." title="WOMEN'S ROYAL NAVAL SERVICE (ALIENS)." type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/womens-royal-naval-service-aliens'></outline>
      </outline>
      <outline id='884438' text='Mr. Ellis Smithasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the extreme urgency of the need to increase the benefits payable under the National Health Insurance, in particular, sickness, maternity and disablement benefits; by what amounts it is intended to increase the benefits; and whether he can make a statement on the matter, in view of the urgency?&lt;br/&gt;The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health (Miss Horsbrugh): My right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Minister of Health are aware of the importance of this issue, and hope to be able to make a statement shortly.&lt;br/&gt;Dr. Edith Summerskill: Why does it take such a long time to decide that 8s. a week is not enough to keep a sick person?&lt;br/&gt;Miss Horsbrugh: I think the hon. Lady would find, if she went into the matter fully, that it is a little more difficult than that, and it is not sufficient merely to say that 8s. is enough or is not enough.&lt;br/&gt;Sir Francis Fremantle: Does the Minister recognise the extreme urgency of reducing financial commitments at the present time?&lt;br/&gt;Hon. Members: Shame.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Thorne: Does the Minister remember what I said to her last week?&lt;br/&gt;Miss Horsbrugh: I remember what the hon. Member said last week, and my reply, which was that there was no difficulty in gingering up my right hon. Friend.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Buchanan: Is the Minister aware that women suffered from economy cuts which did not apply to men; should those cuts not be restored to them in the present circumstances?&lt;br/&gt;Miss Horsbrugh: I think the hon. Member will be aware that many people would like to have a statement made and to know what is to happen, but he will realise that, even if legislation were introduced immediately, no change could be made at once.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Buchanan: Yes, but the Minister will be missing the next half year.' title='NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/national-health-insurance'></outline>
      <outline id='884440' text='Mr. Lipsonasked the Minister of Health the number of vagrants in casual wards for the last recorded date?&lt;br/&gt;Miss Horsbrugh: The number of casuals in receipt of relief in casual wards in England and Wales on the night of the last Friday in December was 3,488. The returns from five authorities for the last Friday in January are still outstanding, but, taking the December figures for the five authorities, the total for January is 3,199.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Lipson: Will the Minister consult with the Minister of Labour with a view to finding out what can be done to get these vagrants to assist the national war effort?&lt;br/&gt;Miss Horsbrugh: Yes, Sir, but my hon. Friend will be aware that the number of vagrants is greatly reduced from pre-war times, when, instead of being from 3,000 to 4,000, it was between 7,000 and 11,000.' title='VAGRANTS (STATISTICS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/vagrants-statistics'></outline>
      <outline id='884441' text='Mr. Lipsonasked the Minister of Pensions what additions to meet the increased cost of living have been made since the war to disability pensions given to men who served in the last war?&lt;br/&gt;The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Pensions (Mr. Paling): The rates of pension laid down in the Royal Warrant of 1919 and corresponding instruments for the Navy and Air Force were based on a cost-of-living figure of 215. The cost of living has not yet&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0646"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1279&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;approached that figure since the present war began, and consequently there has been no increase in the rates. The hon. Member may, however, rest assured that steps will be taken to revise the rates in accordance with the Royal Warrant, if and when the cost of living justifies it.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Lipson: In view of the fact that the value of &amp;#x00A3;1 before the war was only about 15s., is there not a case for an immediate increase in disability pensions, and will the Minister not see that action in that direction is taken at once?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Paling: The rates were fixed after full consideration.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Lipson: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that an answer of that kind bears no true relationship to the facts of life, and will he give the matter more consideration?' title='ARMED FORCES (PENSIONS AND GRANTS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/armed-forces-pensions-and-grants'></outline>
      <outline id='884442' text='Mr. Thorneasked the President of the Board of Education whether he can give any reason why no milk has been delivered to the 1,000 children attending the Oak Farm School, Hillingdon, Middlesex; whether the Board have had any difficulties with the teachers about the matter; and what action he is taking to see that the children get their supply of milk?&lt;br/&gt;The President of the Board of Education (Mr. Ramsbotham): The breakdown is due to the dairymen refusing to supply milk to this school in small bottles containing one-third of a pint. I understand that the teachers are not prepared to accept responsibility for distributing milk supplied in bulk, and, in view of the difficulties and risks of infection involved, I should not feel justified, on the information before me, in asking them to do so. Moreover, Section 85 of the Education Act, 1921, provides that the participation of teachers in this work is entirely voluntary. These and other difficulties affecting the scheme are engaging my earnest attention with a view to finding an immediate remedy.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Messer: Is the Minister aware that there is no evidence that the bottles which were used had been broken or destroyed? In view of that fact, can he account for&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1280&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;the statement which he has made that the bottles are not available?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Ramsbotham: The information I have is that there is great difficulty in getting these bottles, and particularly the stoppers.' title='MILK-IN-SCHOOLS SCHEME (HILLINGDON).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/milk-in-schools-scheme-hillingdon'></outline>
      <outline id='884443' text='Mr. Gordon Macdonaldasked the Secretary for Mines what action has been taken to reorganise the wholesale and retail distribution of coal, in order to release as many men as possible for other work of national importance?&lt;br/&gt;The Secretary for Mines (Mr. David Grenfell): As a result of the operation of the various district schemes established under the Coal Mines Act, 1930, considerable progress had been made before the war with the simplification of the wholesale distribution of coal. More recently, the urgent need to ease the heavy burden now falling upon the railways has led my right hon. and gallant Friend, the Minister of Transport and myself to give constant attention to the movement of more coal in full trainloads and, in so far as present abnormal conditions permit, to the avoidance of unnecessarily long hauls. We are very hopeful that, with the assistance of the colliery owners and of the distributive trade, acting through the House Coal Distribution (Emergency) Scheme, we may be able to achieve substantial further progress along both lines. Economy in the labour employed in the retail distribution of coal was another of the objects for which the House Coal Scheme was established last autumn. The progressive loss of men engaged in this work has now, however, attained proportions that are causing me much anxiety, and I am considering with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service how this essential national service can be safeguarded.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Logan: In regard to the deputation which approached the Minister from Liverpool last week, can he say whether the special arrangement will be applied to the City of Liverpool?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Grenfell: I do not think that the deputation from Liverpool had regard to this question at all.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Logan: It was on a question of coal.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Grenfell: Yes, Sir, certainly, but not this question of coal. There are many other aspects to this question of coal.&lt;br/&gt;Sir Joseph Lamb: Is it possible to consider whether canals can be used for the carrying of coal?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Grenfell: Canals are being used for the carrying of coal. This is a very old question indeed. It is probable that, if action had been taken a long time ago in this direction, more coal could now be carried on the canals. It is not now possible to provide much extra facilities for the transportation of coal by inland waterways.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Burke: Does the Minister realise that there are dangers in reducing the number of mineworkers, because mills in Burnley on Government work have had to close down this week, owing to coal shortage?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Grenfell: Yes, Sir. I am meeting the Minister of Labour, and we are going very closely into the question of retaining men for work of national importance in the mines.' title='COAL (DISTRIBUTION).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/coal-distribution'></outline>
      <outline id='884445' text="General Sir George Jeffreysasked the Minister 'of Agriculture how many days' meat ration for the country is represented by the animals slaughtered since the start of the war for actual or potential infection by foot-and-mouth disease; and whether, if slaughter is still insisted on in the case of infected animals, it can, in the interests of food, be restricted in the case of those animals which are not actually diseased?&lt;br/&gt;The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. R. S. Hudson): The total number of animals slaughtered on account of foot-and-mouth disease since the outbreak of war represents less than one day's meat ration for the whole of the country. The majority of the carcases were salvaged for human consumption. The number of carcases actually destroyed represents so small a quantity as not to be calculable in terms of a day's meat ration." title='FOOT-AND-MOUTH DISEASE.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/foot-and-mouth-disease'></outline>
      <outline id='884447' text='Mr. Liddallasked the Prime Minister whether he is aware of the unfavourable criticism contained in the annual&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1282&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;report of the Chamber of Shipping, upon the shipping control and building policy as at present exercised by five Ministers; and whether he will make better arrangements in this respect?&lt;br/&gt;The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Attlee): I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to the passage in the report dealing with the inspection of ships by officers of several Departments. It is obviously difficult to combine different technical functions in the same inspector, but the Minister of Shipping has informed the Chamber that he will be glad to discuss with them any practicable proposals which they can make to this end. He is also in communication with the other Departments concerned upon the matter.' title='SHIPPING CONTROL.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/shipping-control'></outline>
      <outline id='884448' text="Mr. Tinkerasked the Prime Minister whether in view of the Government's decision not to grant the same rights to the soldier who returns wounded and marries afterwards as to the married soldier, and of the considerable feeling in the country on this matter, he will give time for discussion of the Motion standing on the Order Paper in the name of the hon. Member for Leigh and others relating to the allowances of these soldiers?&lt;br/&gt;[&lt;i&gt;That this House considers that the soldier who gels disabled on active service and marries after such disablement should receive the same grant and the same rights of allowance as are now given to the married soldier.&lt;/i&gt;]&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Attlee: In view of the pressure on Parliamentary time, I fear I do not see any prospect of a discussion of the Motion standing in the name of the hon. Member and others.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Tinker: As this is a matter of great importance, if I renew the Question after Budget-time, can I expect an assurance that there will be time for discussion of the Motion?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Attlee: Perhaps the hon. Member will raise the question after Budget-time." title="DISABLED SOLDIERS' ALLOWANCES." type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/disabled-soldiers-allowances'></outline>
      <outline id='884451' text='Dr. Littleasked the Prime Minister whether, on the National Day of Prayer, he will have a Government Order issued&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0648"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1283&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;that, as far as practicable, work will cease, and all places of entertainment be closed on the appointed day?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Attlee: No, Sir. The value of the response to His Majesty&apos;s call will depend on its being spontaneous, and I do not doubt that the response to that call will be nation-wide.&lt;br/&gt;Dr. Little: As 23rd March has been set apart by His Majesty the King as a Day of Prayer, Intercession and Thanksgiving, should it not be made clear that every hindrance should be taken out of the way, so that all the people in the United Kingdom may be free to respond to the call of His Majesty on the appointed day?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Attlee: I should like to see that Question on the Paper.' title='NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/national-day-of-prayer'></outline>
      <outline id='884453' text='Mr. A. Edwardsasked the Prime Minister whether he will provide time to discuss the Motion on the Order Paper in the name of the hon. Member for Middlesbrough East, and others, relating to the Excess Profits Tax?&lt;br/&gt;[&lt;i&gt;That, whilst acknowledging the principle of limiting profits during war-time, this House recognises the grave handicap to efficient and economical production of essential war materials resulting from the imposition of 100 per cent. excess profits lax, and is of the opinion that 85 per cent. is the maximum that can be imposed without inflicting serious hardship in many cases and extravagance in others; and is further of the opinion that by the reduction of the excess profits tax from 100 per cent. to 85 per cent. there would be an immense saving in the cost of production, an acceleration of output and an increased revenue to the Exchequer, and therefore recommends that the Government give the most serious consideration to this problem without delay.&lt;/i&gt;]&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Attlee: No, Sir. There will be full opportunity for discussion in the Budget Debates.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Edwards: Does the Minister not realise that this Motion is concerned to increase the output of all materials and also to increase the revenue of the Chancellor of the Exchequer? Is it not important that the House should have an&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1284&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;opportunity of discussing this matter before the Chancellor makes his Budget proposals?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Attlee: I think that the discussion on the Budget proposals will give the opportunity which the hon. Member desires.' title='EXCESS PROFITS TAX.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/excess-profits-tax'></outline>
      <outline id='884456' text='MINISTRY OF SUPPLY.'>
        <outline id='884457' text="Mr. Cocksasked the Minister of Supply what steps he is taking to enable a greater number of small firms to take part in war production as recommended by the Select Committee on National Expenditure; and whether he will make arrangements to enable them to obtain the necessary credit facilities from the banks?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. R. Gibson: asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that small engineering shops in Scotland that were busily engaged on munitions during the last war have not yet been given an opportunity of contributing by their work to the present war effort; and whether, with a view to spreading such engineering work, he will take steps to promote a policy of decentralisation in respect of such work?&lt;br/&gt;The Minister of Supply (Sir Andrew Duncan): The Ministry's area officers are constantly helping to arrange sub-contracts of all kinds for the smaller firms, and group schemes are employed in suitable cases. Arrangements have been made in co-operation with the banks whereby manufacturers can, where necessary, obtain from their banks the necessary resources to carry out their contracts. The Ministry of Supply provide additional plant in suitable eases.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Gibson: Cannot the right hon. Gentleman take some further steps than those which are dependent upon the action of banks, in order to bring into production the engineering shops in Scotland and give a greater impetus to the war effort such as was given in the last war?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: I did not say it was dependent upon the action of banks, but upon the action of our own Ministry of Supply area officers." title='WAR PRODUCTION (SMALL FIRMS).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/war-production-small-firms'></outline>
        <outline id='884458' text='Mr. Barnesasked the Minister of Supply the total value of the contracts awarded to a company manufacturing barbed wire, of which he has been informed, together with the contract price per coil; whether this company sub-let the contract to another company of wire manufacturers; and whether the sub-contractors demanded, and obtained, from his Department a guarantee that payment would be forthcoming?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: It would be contrary to established practice to disclose the information asked for in the first part of the Question. As regards the second and third parts of the Question, no portion of the contract let to the firm which the hon. Member has in mind has been sublet. The firm purchases the wire required, and the Department, at the request of the suppliers, has given an assurance as to payment for wire supplied for the purpose of the contract.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Barnes: Can the Minister say whether this was a very large contract; if so, why was not the contract given direct to the producing firm, and also is an inquiry taking place with regard to this contract by his Department?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: I am afraid I cannot add to the answer.' title='BARBED WIRE CONTRACT.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/barbed-wire-contract'></outline>
        <outline id='884459' text='Dr. A. V. Hillasked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that men with good scientific qualifications urgently needed for certain special work, whose names have been sent to him, have been rejected solely on the ground that, although British-born, they are not of British descent and whether, in view of the serious shortage of such men, he will arrange that in making appointments loyalty and ability should be considered rather than ancestry?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: It was recently decided to relax the general rule previously applied in the Ministry of Supply that candidates for employment should be British-born and born of British-born parents. I may add that numerous exceptions had already been made in the application of the general rule.' title='SCIENTISTS (NATIONALITY).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/scientists-nationality'></outline>
        <outline id='884460' text="Mr. McEnteeasked the Minister of Supply why local authorities are being asked to hand over to metal merchants, free of any charge, railings from their parks and open spaces, and scrap metal, which is then to be bought by the Government from the merchants at an agreed price, which enables the merchants to make a considerable profit; and what protests he has received from local authorities against this practice?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: Local authorities are encouraged to dispose of railings through the ordinary channels of trade Any local authority which is satisfied that the merchants are not offering a reasonable price for the railings, having regard to the services rendered by the merchant, may apply direct to the Director of Scrap Supplies of the Iron and Steel Control. The advantages of the scheme are generally recognised by local authorities, and there has been very little complaint.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. McEntee: Is it not a fact that the Minister's Department is asking local authorities to give this material free of charge while merchants are charging a price to the Government? In view of the fact that a great number of local authorities have railway sidings of their own, put the metal on the sidings and send it to the merchants, who pick it up, why is not the metal sent by the local authorities on their own sidings to the place where it is to be used, and thus save this middleman's profit?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: The matter is not so simple as that. There are great varieties in the content of these railings, and it is quite a technical matter to decide to which places they are to go. There is no objection at all to the local authorities entering into direct contact with the Iron and Steel Control for a direct arrangement for purchase.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Sorensen: Will the Minister take steps to induce local authorities which are not sending in their railings to do so at the earliest possible moment?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: We are quite satisfied that the railings are coming in at the necessary rate.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. McEntee: Will the Minister give a direction to the local authorities&amp;#x2014;&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Deputy-Speaker&lt;i&gt;rose&lt;/i&gt;&amp;#x2014;&lt;br/&gt;Mr. McEntee: Why am I not permitted to ask a second Supplementary Question?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Member was only repeating a previous Supplementary Question. There are about 30 Questions yet to be answered." title="LOCAL AUTHORITIES' RAILINGS AND SCRAP METAL." type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/local-authorities-railings-and-scrap'></outline>
        <outline id='884461' text='Mr. Stokesasked the Minister of Supply what percentage of the total steel used in Great Britain is now being imported from the United States of America?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: It would not be in the public interest to disclose the information for which the hon. Member asks.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Stokes: On the assumption that the amount imported is a small minority of the whole, would it not be to the general advantage to maintain the price of home-produced steel at a proper level and give a direct subsidy from the Government?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That does not arise.' title='STEEL (IMPORTS FROM UNITED STATES).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/steel-imports-from-united-states'></outline>
        <outline id='884464' text='Dr. Littleasked the Minister of Supply what was the percentage of iron in the samples of iron ore taken in County Down; and whether he will explore still further in that region with the object of taking additional samples for testing?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: The samples taken from this field showed great variations. The excavations are at present waterlogged, but I am prepared to consider further sampling when conditions become favourable.&lt;br/&gt;Dr. Little: How many samples of iron ore were taken, and was the percentage arrived at the average of the analyses of these samples?&lt;br/&gt;Sir A. Duncan: Quite a number of samples were taken. These veins are very small, and one must consider much more than the actual content of a particular sample. The accessibility in quantity of the ore is a matter of vital importance.' title='IRON ORE, NORTHERN IRELAND.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/iron-ore-northern-ireland'></outline>
      </outline>
      <outline id='884467' text='FOOD SUPPLIES.'>
        <outline id='884469' text='Mr. Sloanasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he is aware that casserole steak is beings old in shops in the West of Scotland at a price of 2s., whilst the makers, Messrs.Hendry Brothers, London, state that the maximum selling price should be 1s. 6d.;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1288&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;and what action he intends taking to prevent such gross profiteering?&lt;br/&gt;The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food (Major Lloyd George): I understand the "Casserole Steak" referred to is imported from Eire. The price at which this and other imported canned meats should be sold first hand in this country have been agreed with the importers, who have undertaken to bring to the notice of the trade appropriate retail prices. These steps have apparently not been sufficient to ensure that these retail prices are not exceeded, and my Noble Friend is now examining the position further.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Sloan: Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the firms recently controlled by his Noble Friend, the Minister of Food, are the chief sinners in this respect?' title='MEAT (PRICES).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/meat-prices'></outline>
        <outline id='884471' text='Mr. Manderasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food the position of the Government concerning proposals in regard to the distributive trade in milk put forward recently by the Perry Committee in their report?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: My Noble Friend expects to be able to make a statement on this subject next week.' title='MILK.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/milk'></outline>
        <outline id='884472' text='Mr. Snaddenasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food (1) whether he is aware that Direction C18/DI, prohibiting merchants from selling oats to persons other than oatmeal millers except where such oats are refused by them, was issued only to a certain number of authorised merchants leaving others a free hand; that this has caused much resentment; and will he take steps to remove this injustice;&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;(2) whether he is aware that his Department have issued a Direction C18/DI, dated 18th February, 1941, to certain authorised merchants, prohibiting the sale by them to persons other than oatmeal millers of all oats purchased after 18th February, 1941, except, where such oats have been refused by oatmeal millers; that all oats includes seed oats; and that this Order will have the effect of preventing farmers from securing vital supplies of seed for the greatly-increased acreage now&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0651"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1289&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;about to be sown; and whether he will take steps to have seed oats excluded from this Direction?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: New Directions, dated 6th March, were issued to all approved buyers of oats in Scotland, the object of which is to secure an increase in the quantity of oats offered to oatmeal millers. The sale of oats for distribution or use as seed in Scotland is specifically permitted under these new Directions.' title='OATS.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/oats'></outline>
        <outline id='884474' text='Mr. Graham Whiteasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food the reasons why the proposal to restart the Monitrie farina factory was not proceeded with?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: No decision has been taken not to restart the Monitrie factory. The question is now under examination in the light of the present starch supply position.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. White: Having regard to the time during which this matter has been under consideration, and the possibility of a growing shortage of starch, will the hon. and gallant Gentleman see that action is taken to deal with the matter?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: There will be no undue delay, and the question of starch supplies is very much as it was.' title='MONITRIE FARINA FACTORY.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/monitrie-farina-factory'></outline>
        <outline id='884476' text='Mr. Robertsonasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food the reasons for the continued delay in controlling fish prices, which are much too high and beyond the purchasing power of the majority of the people; and, having regard to the shortage of rationed foods, will he fix maximum fish prices forthwith?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: My hon. Friend will be aware that, as I said in reply to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for West Birmingham (Mr. Higgs) on 26th February, the control of fish distribution and prices presents special difficulties partly owing to the perishable nature of the commodity and partly owing to the nature of the trade. While I entirely agree with the views expressed in the last part of the Question, I cannot, at present, add anything to the reply which I gave on 26th ultimo.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Robertson: Is it not a fact that a similar problem had to be faced during the last war, and that the Maximum Prices Order then introduced solved the problem, with the result that there was a fair and square distribution of this essential food, and does my hon. and gallant Friend not realise that the Government policy is being defeated by the failure of the Department to control the price of fish?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: I am afraid I cannot agree with my hon. Friend about the success of the policy of control in the last war. I say again that it is a most difficult problem to define maximum prices. As I pointed out in a reply I made a week or so ago, my Noble Friend considers that prices are far too high.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Garro Jones: Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the difficulties of controlling the prices of fish vary greatly in the different classes of fish, and will he therefore do as much good as he can by fixing maximum prices in the case of those fish which can easily be controlled in regard to price?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: That is one of the difficulties before us at the present time. There are over 40 different kinds of fish, and we are contemplating controlling those more easily dealt with.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. McGovern: Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that fish ranges from 2s. 6d. to 5s. a 1b. in Glasgow, and that the Minister has asked the merchants themselves to fix a price; and is it not ridiculous that no action should be taken while the fish is mounting in price and people are discontented at the way in which the Ministry of Food is acting?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: My Noble Friend considers the price of fish far too high, but this is the most difficult problem of all and fixing a maximum price is not a solution of this problem. My hon. Friend knows that fish are in short supply at the moment, and the fixing of a maximum price alone could not ensure equitable distribution.' title='FISH (PRICES).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/fish-prices'></outline>
        <outline id='884477' text='Mr. Priceasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food what steps are being taken to secure that, in cases where a large increase in population has taken place in a certain area, and&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0652"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1291&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;where there is in that area a large industrial and mining population for whom cheese is a vital necessity, an increased supply of cheese is available as far as the quantities in the country permit?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which I gave on 26th February to the hon. Member for Devizes (Sir P. Hurd), in which I announced that my Noble Friend is reviewing the operation of the present system of distributing cheese with a view to its improvement. In that review the points made by my hon. Friend are being taken into account.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Priceasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether, when there is a surplus of milk for manufacture into milk products, he will give first preference to manufacture of cheese rather than dried and powder-milk products?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: My Noble Friend has already arranged that first preference shall be given to the making of cheese rather than of other products in the utilisation of the surplus milk available for manufacture' title='CHEESE.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/cheese'></outline>
        <outline id='884479' text='Sir G. Jeffreysasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether, in view of the request by his Department to producers to market their livestock earlier owing to the shortage of feeding-stuffs, he is arranging for a material quantity of this to be placed in cold storage for later use?&lt;br/&gt;Major Lloyd George: In so far as additional supplies of home-produced meat become available, they enable the Ministry to reduce the releases of imported meat from cold stores.' title='MEAT (COLD STORAGE).' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/meat-cold-storage'></outline>
      </outline>
      <outline id='884482' text="Mr. Lees-Smithasked the Prime Minister whether he can give the House any information about the Lease and Lend Bill?&lt;br/&gt;The Prime Minister (Mr. Churchill): The Lease-Lend Bill became law yesterday, when it received the signature of the President. I am sure the House would wish me to express on their behalf, and&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1292&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;on behalf of the nation, our deep a no respectful appreciation of this monument of generous and far-seeing statesmanship.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;The most powerful democracy have, in effect, declared in solemn Statute that they will devote their overwhelming industrial and financial strength to ensuring the defeat of Nazism in order that nations, great and small, may live in security, tolerance and freedom. By so doing, the Government and people of the United States have in fact written a new Magna Carta, which not only has regard to the rights and laws upon which a healthy and advancing civilisation can alone be erected, but also proclaims by precept and example the duty of free men and free nations, wherever they may be, to share the responsibility and burden of enforcing them.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;In the name of His Majesty's Government and speaking, I am sure, for Parliament and for the whole country, and indeed, in the name of all freedom-loving peoples, I offer to the United States our gratitude for her inspiring act of faith.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Granville: May I ask the Prime Minister, in view of the great importance of this statement whether he would consider making a broadcast to the United States of America in similar terms and on a wavelength which could be heard by the people of this country as well?&lt;br/&gt;The Prime Minister: That is a matter in which a decision would have to be taken at the appropriate moment." title='UNITED STATES LEASE-LEND BILL.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/united-states-lease-lend-bill'></outline>
      <outline id='884484' text='Adam Storey McKinlay, Esquire, for the County of Dumbarton.' title='NEW MEMBER MAKES AFFIRMATION.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/new-member-makes-affirmation'></outline>
    </outline>
    <outline id='884496' text='ORDERS OF THE DAY.'>
      <outline id='884497' text='Resolution reported:&lt;br/&gt;"That for the purposes of any Act of the present Session to abolish the requirement that in determining the need and assessing the needs of applicants for unemployment assistance or supplementary pensions the resources of all members of their households must be taken into account, to make further provision for the determination of need and the assessment of needs in the case of such applicants and in connection with financial assistance to blind persons and to provide for the winding-up of the Unemployment Assistance Fund (hereinafter referred to as &apos;the said Act&apos;) it is expedient to authorize&amp;#x2014;&#x000A;&lt;quote&gt;I. the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of any amounts by which the sums required for the payment of allowances under the Unemployment Assistance Act, 1934, and of supplementary pensions under the Old Age and Widows&apos; Pensions Act, 1940, are increased&amp;#x2014;&#x000A;&lt;ol&gt;&#x000A;&lt;li&gt;(&lt;i&gt;a&lt;/i&gt;) by reason of any provisions of the said Act altering the statutory requirements as to the determination of the need and the assessment of the needs of applicants who are members of households; and&lt;/li&gt;&#x000A;&lt;li&gt;(&lt;i&gt;b&lt;/i&gt;) by reason of any provisions of the said Act requiring that in computing there sources of any person whose resources are taken into account in determining the need or assessing the needs of applicants for such allowances and supplementary pensions as aforesaid, any money and investments treated as capital assets of that person up to the amount of his war savings, but not exceeding three hundred and seventy-five pounds, shall be disregarded. together with the income there from in addition to any money and investments which would be otherwise disregarded;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;&#x000A;and of such sums as may be necessary to defray the expenses of the Assistance Beard. including the amount of the allowances issued under the Unemployment Assistance Act, 1034; and&lt;/quote&gt;&lt;br/&gt;II. the payment into the Exchequer of ail sums received by the Assistance Board."&lt;br/&gt;Resolution agreed to.' title='DETERMINATION OF NEEDS [MONEY].' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/determination-of-needs-money'></outline>
      <outline id='884515' text='Considered in Committee.&lt;br/&gt;[Sir DENNIS HERBERT in the chair.]' title='DETERMINATION OF NEEDS BILL.' type='link' url='http://hansard.millbanksystems.comhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1941/mar/12/determination-of-needs-bill'></outline>
      <outline id='884515' text='DETERMINATION OF NEEDS BILL.'>
        <outline id='884522' text='Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."&lt;br/&gt;Mr. A. Bevan: As I understand that it is not proposed to move&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1308&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;the Amendments on the Order Paper, may I ask whether the Chancellor will take this opportunity of indicating whether he has any concession to make; and will it be convenient to the Committee, with your permission. Sir Dennis, to have a general discussion on the Chancellor&apos;s statement and on the general principles of the Clause?&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I have no objection to the Chancellor of the Exchequer making a statement.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Buchanan: Would it not suit the convenience of the Committee if we had a statement from the Chancellor, on Clause 1 as to the changes, if any, which are to be made in the Bill? That might clarify the discussion, and ease the position later. I am certain that Clause 1 is the appropriate: occasion for the Chancellor to make any such statement.&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I said that I had no objection to the course proposed by the hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Bevan) As to further proceedings of the kind that the hon. Member referred to, I think we must wait and see how things go.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Buchanan: I thank you for your answer, Sir Dennis, which is a very tolerant one. I was going to ask the Chancellor if, subject to your Ruling, he could make some statement on the Bill in general.&lt;br/&gt;The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Sir Kingsley Wood): I beg to move, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;I should be very glad to give an indication on two matters of some importance which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and I have considered, with a view to meeting some of the points which have been put by my hon. Friends opposite. Of course, matters in the Bill generally were the subject o&apos; very close and careful examination by my right hon. Friend and myself and we gave a great deal of time and attention to them. In view of the representations that have been made, and in order that Parliament may properly exercise its functions&amp;#x2014;because I recognise that it is not simply a matter for the determination of Ministers&amp;#x2014;my right hon. Friend and I have given reconsideration to two matters of some&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0661"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1309&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;importance, involving further concessions to people who will benefit under the Bill.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;The first is this: My hon. Friends will remember that in the White Paper it was stated that the Board, in applying Rule 2, proposed to assess at 7s. a week the benefit accruing to the applicant through the presence in his household of an adult earning normal wages. This matter has been the subject of discussion between my hon. Friends opposite and myself, and I think it was generally understood that the intention had been to regard 50s. or over as normal wages. In view of representations which have been made by my hon. Friends, it is now proposed to raise this figure to 55s., that is to say, that any person earning less than 55s. a week will be assumed to contribute less than 7s. a week, and this will have certain consequential effects.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;The second matter is one to which my hon. Friends opposite attach considerable importance. It will be recalled that under Rule 3 an applicant living in a household with his father or mother, son or daughter would not be regarded as requiring to contribute towards the cost of his board and lodging, if the income of the father and mother, or son and daughter, exceeded the prescribed amount. In the White Paper it was suggested that the prescribed amount should be &amp;#x00A3;5 a week, subject to an addition, where there were two or more dependants exclusive of the applicant. My hon. Friends opposite made certain representations about that figure of &amp;#x00A3;5 a week, and we now propose to raise the amount from &amp;#x00A3;5 to &amp;#x00A3;6 a week, This, of course. will make a considerable difference in the administration of the scheme. Those are two proposals which I hope will commend themselves to the Committee and will be regarded by my hon. Friends opposite as an earnest of the desire of the Government to meet the representations which they have made. Undoubtedly they will confer considerable additional advantages on the people who are to benefit.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Buchanan: The concessions inst announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer are important, and I do not propose to labour the question further than to say that I think the increase from &amp;#x00A3;5 to &amp;#x00A3;6 a week is the more important of the two. I wish to ask, however, whether the right hon. Gentleman will not again&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1310&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;look into the question of the minimum wage in respect of which contribution is to be taken into account. Under the procedure at present proposed, the &amp;#x00A3;1 a week figure still stands in this connection. No doubt the right hon. Gentleman, with his long experience, will say that when concessions are made there are always demands for further concessions, but I do think that he ought to go into this matter of the lower-level incomes once again. He is making concessions which to some extent improve matters for those who are, comparatively speaking, in the better positions, but which leave untouched the hardest cases of all, namely, those of the very poor, such as the old age pensioners who are at the &amp;#x00A3;1-a-week level. As between the &amp;#x00A3;2 15s. a week income and the &amp;#x00A3;1 a week income the gap is a very large one, and even at this late hour, I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to consider increasing in the Regulations the minimum of &amp;#x00A3;1 which seems to be the most serious blot on the Bill.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;The Bill, in my view, represents a considerable general improvement, but I think the &amp;#x00A3;1-a-week provision remains a blot upon it, affecting the poorest of the people concerned. I thought that one result of the Bill would be the avoidance of unnecessary expense in investigation, and I understood from the right hon. Gentleman&apos;s earlier statement that it was hoped to mitigate the investigation procedure. But as long as you have that abnormally low level, you will still require a large amount of investigation, particularly where female employment abounds, because it is notorious that the wages paid to women are much lower than men&apos;s wages. I therefore urge the Chancellor to reconsider the minimum standard.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bevan: It is clear that we have already passed a very important stage of this Bill. I agree that the concessions announced by the right hon. Gentleman are of substantial importance and will enable a large number of people to benefit who might otherwise be excluded. For those reasons we welcome the concessions, but it must now be clear that the substance of the Bill will lie in the Regulations which are to be issued under it, and the most useful Debate that can take place will be one directed to improving the Regulations themselves and also the Rules to be issued under the Regulations&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0662"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1311&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;I suggest respectfully to the Minister of Labour that our experience has gone to show that Rules which are concealed from us are often more important than the Regulations and that the Regulations seem to be more important than the Bill. The Committee will, I am sure, have noticed this peculiarity, that within the language and the framework of the Bill, without making any alteration in the terms of the Bill itself, it has already been found possible to raise the &amp;#x00A3;5 a week to &amp;#x00A3;6 a. week and the 50s. a week to 55s. a week.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;My hon. Friends will, I am certain, tell the Chancellor and the Minister of Labour that much of what we do here on these questions is often rendered nugatory by what the Board does. A distinction is made in this Bill between a person who is a householder and one who is not. Many of us regard the distinction as artificial. Who is or who is not the house holder often depends in working-class circles on conditions and factors wholly irrelevant to our legislation. As my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Ness Edwards) pointed out in the Second Reading Debate, in South Wales a son may become the householder for reasons arising out of his relationship with his employer. It is important that the Regulations or Rules should lay down some objective and easily discernible test of who is the householder or who is not. It is undesirable, because it is repugnant to all the instincts of our people, that an officer of the Board should be allowed, in determining the position of a person who is living in a household with other relatives, to pry too closely into the circumstances of family life.&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I am trying my best to help the hon. Member, but the Motion to report Progress is not a proper occasion on which to discuss Regulations to be made under this Bill. There are two courses, I think, open to hon. Members with regard to what has arisen or is expected to arise under the Regulations. One is that they may find it practicable to deal with these various questions on the particular Clauses or Schedules on which they arise in the Committee. That, I appreciate, might cause some hon. Members some difficulties, and in that case T think the proper opportunity for discuss-&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1312&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;ing these Regulations would be after the Committee and Report stages of the Bill, on the Third Reading of the Bill. Obviously, it is quite impossible to have a general Debate upon the intended Regulations upon this Motion.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Lawson: May I draw your attention to the fact that, while it is true that we cannot discuss the Regulations, you have an unusual situation in this case as distinct from other Bills of this nature in that you have had a White Paper which has practically laid down the principles of the Regulations, and in some cases actually stated the amounts? Therefore, as this has been discussed on Second Reading and has been mentioned by the right hon. Gentleman, would it not be just as well, in view of that fact, to discuss this matter rather more widely on this occasion than we have been enabled to do on previous Bills of this kind?&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I think that that is perfectly true. I have already had the White Paper before me, but we have to keep within certain limits. I have allowed a good deal of latitude on the whole, but we must keep within the forms of procedure, otherwise we shall get into all sorts of quagmires, which only lead us in future to greater difficulty. We certainly cannot discuss a White Paper of this kind in the way that hon. Members wish to discuss it on the Committee stage of the Bill at all. Points arising on such a matter have on occasions been discussed on the Committee stage, if and so far as they are legitimate subjects for discussion, on the Question of the Clause or Schedule standing part of the Bill, or, as I have indicated, they can be more generally debated as one subject on the Third Reading. The question of the White Paper having been issued in this case cannot alter the procedure in Committee. If hon. Members wish to discuss the White Paper generally as a special matter on this occasion they are wishing to do something which is not permissible. I am afraid that I cannot allow it.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Pethick-Lawrence: I do not wish in any way to disagree with your Ruling, Sir Dennis, on principle. There is a number of Amendments on the Paper, and Members of the Committee desire to know whether they should move those Amendments or not.&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I am not sure whether the right hon. Gentleman was in the Chamber a few minutes ago.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Pethick-Lawrence: I have been here all &apos;the time.&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I have already given the Committee to understand that on the Motion to report Progress I will allow hon. Members to discuss matters in regard to the proposed Amendments and the new concessions proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to be made on behalf of the Government. I think there can be no difficulty about that, but I cannot allow a general discussion on the White Paper.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Barnes: We are still not clear as to the purpose that the Motion to report Progress is to serve. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has mentioned several concessions which are very acceptable. Are we to be able to raise other points covered by Amendments at this stage, or do you prefer us to leave these matters until we reach the Amendments on the Bill?&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: It is not an unusual thing to have a discussion of this kind upon the intentions of the Government when provisional arrangements have been made by the Government with hon. Members who have criticised the Bill with regard to certain provisions of the Bill. Therefore, I think hon. Members ought to have no difficulty in realising how far or how short a distance they can go in this Debate. It must be purely a question of the Chancellor&apos;s statement and making any counter-statement which is strictly relevant to the Chancellor&apos;s statement. I think that is what it comes to, but what I am anxious to do at the present moment, when the request has definitely been made to me in these terms that we might have a Debate on the Regulations to be laid, is to make it clear that such a Debate cannot possibly take place now.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bevan: I think it is all my fault, because, with all my experience, I ought to have known that, if I had continually referred to Amendments and not Regulations, I should have been able to say the same things in perfect order. As I understand it, we are now having a discussion on the Motion to report Progress on the Chancellor&apos;s statement and on a number of Amendments which I understand are&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1314&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;not to be moved, and you will be able to put the Clause properly afterwards without any discussion at all. This will enable Ministers to go away who might have been brought here under false pretences.&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I hope that the hon. Member will not misunderstand what I have said. I think he is stretching my Ruling unduly. I must ask him to note that I did state most definitely that a Debate on the intended or proposed Regulations to be laid under this Bill, if and when it becomes an Act, cannot be discussed on the Committee stage.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bevan: I think you are now making it frightfully difficult. In my respectful submission, it will be quite impossible for us to discuss either the Bill or the Chancellor&apos;s statement unless we discuss the Regulations, because the Chancellor of the Exchequer could not have made a statement other than that about the Regulations. I think the point has not been grasped. After what the Chancellor of the Exchequer has said to the Committee that the Regulations will themselves contain certain things, how, therefore, can we discuss them?&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I am sorry if I have not made clear the procedure of the House and the Rules in regard thereto, which, as I have already said, we must keep when it comes to such questions as this, otherwise we shall be getting the whole procedure of the House into considerable muddle. Apparently, the whole of the hon. Member&apos;s difficulty is that he wants to do something on the Committee stage which is not proper to be done on the Committee stage, and I cannot allow that.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Graham White: I welcome the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and I think it is a great help to the Bill and will no doubt affect its progress.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bevan&lt;i&gt;rose&lt;/i&gt;&amp;#x2014;&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: It is certainly not considered in Order that two hon. Members should speak at once, still less three or more. I think we are getting a little adrift here. The hon. Member for East Birkenhead (Mr. White) was, I gather, proceeding to make a speech on the Motion to report Progress, but the hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Bevan) was in possession of the Floor of the Committee on a&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0664"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1315&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;point of Order when I interrupted him. I am not sure whether my interruption has been sufficient to end what he desired to say.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bevan: I really am in a. difficulty, which the whole Committee shares, and I hope that we shall be able to come to some arrangement. It has happened on many occasions that we have agreed to have a discussion of a general nature on the Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill," a guarantee being given to the Chair that if we did this, the other Clauses which might give rise to similar discussion should be put automatically from the Chair and a vote taken, if necesary, without a discussion. [&lt;i&gt;Interruption.&lt;/i&gt;]&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: Hon. Members must address the Chair and not carry on their own conversation with one another.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bevan: If that is not understood, the Motion to report Progress, instead of widening the discussion, limits it, and I respectfully submit that it would be just as well that the Motion to report Progress should now be withdrawn, so that we could go on with a discussion on the Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I think the hon. Member may be right, but I am afraid that that still does not get him as far as he wants to go. Even a most general discussion on the Question &apos;&apos;That the Clause stand part of the Bill," would not permit what I understand he wants, which is a general and full discussion on Regulations to be made under a Bill which has not yet even got to its Third Reading stage. This is not the proper time for a discussion of these Regulations. If the Motion to report Progress were withdrawn, I agree that that would probably be the best thing to do, so that the Committee could deal with the Bill Clause by Clause. I do not want hon. Members to be afraid that I will stifle proper discussion in any way on the Bill, but they must remember that it would be quite out of Order and, indeed, not reasonable to discuss Regulations made, or rather intended to be made, under a Bill which is not yet anywhere near the end of its passage through the House.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Buchanan: The Chancellor has discussed Regulations by announcing&amp;#x2014;&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I think the hon. Member will find that the putting of points of that sort will not be stopped. But that is quite another thing from discussing Regulations as a whole, which I cannot allow. I will allow Debate on the Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill," to the greatest possible extent that I can. In such discussions hon. Members can take note of and be concerned with any statement which has been made by the Government as to what is intended to be done by the Regulations, which is, as I have said, a different thing from discussing the Regulations as a whole.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Buchanan: I was about to say that the Chancellor had discussed Regulations within limits, by announcing two concessions, not in the Bill, on these Regulations. Surely other Members are entitled to ask that the Chancellor ought to make some other concession on the Regulations. Surely that is not out of Order. With all due deference to you, Sir Dennis, you arc saying that we cannot discuss the Regulations, yet the Chancellor has already discussed them in part by announcing two concessions on the White Paper, and all I ask is, At what point does a Member stop? I asked for a concession on the minimum wage, and some other Member may ask for a concession on some other part, and if we take this matter on the Motion to report Progress or on the Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill," it does not ease the dilemma. For the sake of clarity, it is not an unfair proposition, and indeed would facilitate discussion, if you allowed other Members to raise points that they consider important on the concessions under the Regulations.&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I am afraid the hon. Member is doing what I expressed the hope Members would not do. All those questions which he asked just now as indicating what he or any other Member wished to say I would not interrupt or stop, but if hon. Members ask for a general Debate on the Regulations to be made under the Bill, I cannot agree. The statement made by the Chancellor in these circumstances is one which can be replied to or criticised by other Members. If&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0665"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1317&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;only hon. Members will proceed in the ordinary way, I think they will find that the matter is not so difficult as they suspect.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bevan: The Chair is placed in a difficulty.&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I must ask the hon. Member to remember that these difficulties do not arise as a result of the conduct of the Chair; they arise through the procedure of the House, and I hope he will not speak of the matter in such a way as to reflect on the conduct of the Chair.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bevan: I made no reflection of any sort on the Chair, and I have no intention of doing so, but these difficulties are implicit in the situation, and we cannot understand what the Bill means unless we are told what the Government intend by the Regulations.&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I again say that I do not really see the difficulty. I have already stated that I am prepared to allow, within reason, as much elasticity as T can on the Debate on the Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill" If I may make a suggestion and give a little advice to the Committee, it is that if the Motion to report Progress is withdrawn and the Committee stage proceeded with in the ordinary way, and time is not taken up by lengthy arguments on subjects and questions of Order on or in fear of something which may never happen, we shall probably get on more speedily.&lt;br/&gt;Sir K. Wood: Perhaps the Committee will allow me to withdraw my Motion to report Progress?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Mainwaring: May I ask for an explanation? The Chancellor has been good enough to say that the limit of 50s. will be raised to 55s. That will affect adult sons within the family. But the adult may be a boarder, or a lodger, in which case the amount of wages he earns will not be deemed to affect the profit accruing to the householder. What amount of profit is to be assumed in the case of a boarder paying 25s. per week? I should like to know whether this will apply to boarders or whether it will be confined to sons.&lt;br/&gt;The Chairman: I would point out that all these matters can be discussed much more properly when we reach the Clause or Schedule in the Bill dealing with the making of Regulations to which the hon. Member has referred.&lt;br/&gt;Sir K. Wood: I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Motion.&lt;br/&gt;Motion, by leave, withdrawn.&lt;br/&gt;Question again proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill"&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Bevan: The question raised by my hon. Friend the Member for East Rhondda (Mr. Mainwaring) emphasises what I am about to say. It is very important that, in order to give the benefits which I am sure the Government intend to give, the Regulations should be drawn up in accordance with the intentions of the Bill. If hon. Members will look at Clause I, they will see that it is intended, in general terms, to repeal the former legislation, and that the provision that&#x000A;&lt;quote&gt;"the resources of the applicant taken into account shall include the resources of all members of the household of which he is a member,"&lt;/quote&gt;&#x000A;is to cease to have effect. Therefore, it is the general intention of the Bill that the substantial hardships of the household means test shall be rectified. Whether that is so will depend entirely upon whether there is a sensible definition of the household, the resources of which are still to be taken into account; it will depend upon the definition of "household" which the Government are to give subsequently. Thus, it is of paramount importance that we should have a definition of "household" that will not inflict hardship. It ought to be possible for the Board to define a household by means of objective data and not by reason of the subjective relationships of the people living in the household. On more than one occasion it has happened that benefits intended by Parliament have been withheld from the applicant by reason of the officer declaring that if the father and mother have a meal of food with a son or daughter on Sunday afternoon, they must be held to be living in common, with the result that the resources of the son or daughter have been taken into account. If that sort of definition is still to be retained, there will be very great difficulties.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;Hon. Members will see that many of these benefits turn upon whether a person&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0666"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1319&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;is or is not a householder. What is a householder for all practical purposes? He or she is a person who is held by the law to be responsible for the rent of the house. Therefore, the rent book or the shop book, or any factor which determines the relationship of the householder to the outside world, should determine the definition of the household, which ought not to be determined by the relationship between people living in the house. I hope that when the Government consider this matter, they will see that the Unemployment Assistance Board give effect to the intention of Parliament, which is in all circumstances to consider a bona fide householder and not merely a person who happens by accident to be living with someone else in a house.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;I do not propose to make any other point now. I am satisfied we shall not know what are the benefits of the Bill until we see it administered. Some of my hon. Friends have taken one view about the Bill, and I have taken another view. More than once it has been our experience that Parliament&apos;s intention has been stultified by administrative malpractices, and in a few months&apos; time we may be faced with an administration of the Bill that will wholly falsify the intentions of Parliament. Indeed, even now under the Board there exists great differences between one part of the country and another. The definitions of "household" and of "dependent members" vary from one part of the country to another. It is these things that cause bitterness and hardship. I hope that our worst fears will not be realised, and that on this occasion the Unemployment Assistance Board will have more regard to the intentions of Parliament, and not try by administrative methods to minimise the intentions of Parliament.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Ellis Smith: I want to say at the outset that I, and those with whom I am associated, very much appreciate the concessions that have been announced, but I want to ask one or two questions about those concessions, and also to obtain an assurance from the Minister with regard to the administration of this Clause and of the concessions that have been announced. In the first place, I think the Committee are entitled to have more assurances concerning the way in which the provision relating to "normal wage"&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1320&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;is to be administered. This has been administered by the Board in different ways, and, therefore, I think we ought to have some assurance concerning the matter. The next point to which I want to refer relates to the matter raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Bevan). The Committee will remember that when the Bill was before the House, the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Kelvingrove (Mr. Elliot), who was then Minister of Health, adopted a more generous attitude than we had previously experienced with regard to legislation of this character. Hon. Members on this side were satisfied with the assurances given at that time, but, unfortunately, those assurances were not implemented in the administration of the provision. I want to give the Committee the benefit of a letter which I received from the Minister of Health concerning the friction created unnecessarily through the Board, in its administration, not carrying out the intentions of Parliament. The letter, referring to a resolution that had been sent to the Minister by a large number of trades councils, stated:&#x000A;&lt;quote&gt;"I feel that the resolution implies that the Assistance Board&apos;s officers are treating every applicant for supplementary pension who lives in the same house as a married son or other married relative, as a member of that relative&apos;s household. This is not so, and I am sure you will agree that the question whether two or more persons are living as members of the same household is one which must obviously be decided on the facts of each case. It is equally obvious that every pensioner living with relatives does not make his arrangements with those relatives on a standard pattern, either of the kind mentioned or some other kind. If the pensioner can show, as the resolution suggests, that he has rented unfurnished accommodation for which he pays an agreed and reasonable rent, and makes his own provisions for food, fuel and other necessities, the officer will normally treat him as maintaining a separate establishment:."&lt;/quote&gt;&#x000A;I only wish that the words contained in that letter had been carried out by the Board&apos;s officers. Had that letter been carried out strictly in accordance with the spirit and intentions of Parliament, I am convinced that we would not have had the friction throughout the country since the Bill became an Act&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Silverman: What is the date of that letter?&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Smith: Unfortunately this is only a copy of the letter, but the secretary of the organisation has the original. If&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0667"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1321&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;the hon. Member would like to see the copy, I will show it to him. The letter;s addressed from the Ministry of Health and is signed by the right hon. Member for Ross and Cromarty (Mr. Malcolm MacDonald). So far as this Bill is concerned, I am asking for an assurance from the Minister that the intention of Parliament and this letter will be implemented in administration.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Silverman: I want to support what has been said by the hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Bevan) and the hon; Member for Stoke (Mr. Ellis Smith) in regard to the interpretation given administratively to the conception of a separate household. Nothing in this legislation has caused more bitterness in a large number of working-class homes than this definition. It has been administered in this way: It may sound almost unbelievable, but there are countless instances of it, and nearly all my hon. Friends could, I am sure, produce countless similar examples. Let us take the case of two separate houses, both of which are occupied by a family and an old age pensioner who lives in a rented room. It makes all the difference in the world to the decision reached by the pensions officer, whether or not the old age pensioner is related to the household. I submit that that must be wrong, and that there must be an objective test of what is a household. Make any investigation which appears to be reasonable, but, having made it, apply it impartially as between one house and another.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;There have been thousands of cases where an old man or an old woman has said to himself or herself: "It is much better that I should live with relatives than with strangers. I want to pay my own way, and I do not wish to be a burden on anyone; I never have been and I do not want to be now. I am in the last years of my life, and I am no longer able to earn my living, but I have some means from my old age pension and supplementation out of which I wish to maintain myself. I am prepared to pay a reasonable rent for my room, and I am prepared to buy or to use furniture which I already possess. I am prepared to buy my own food, and I would very much sooner do all this in a house whose other occupants are my blood-relations than in a stranger&apos;s house." If all these condi-&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1322&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;tions are satisfied, and if the Board will accept them as establishing a separate household where there is no relationship between the old age pensioner and the household, there is no reason in the world why exactly the same state of affairs should not be allowed where there is a relationship.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;I know of one case where an old lady was living in an old people&apos;s hostel. She was living in common with other people and was granted&amp;#x2014;and I think was rightly granted&amp;#x2014;a supplemental pension. She lived there more or less happily and comfortably, but there came a time when she suffered a paralytic stroke, as a result of which she became too great a burden for the hostel to carry. This old lady had relatives, who said, "We will willingly and lovingly accept that burden and discharge it. Come and live with us" All that happened was that this old lady went from the hostel to this home. She had a room, made her own contributions, and used her own furniture; but, whereas when she was in the hostel she received a supplemental pension, when her daughter took her into her home, and nothing else had changed, the Board determined that there was no longer a separate household, and her supplemental pension was withdrawn. The burden upon the old lady and her relatives was increased to the extent of the supplemental pension just because she went as an invalid from the hostel to her daughter&apos;s house. That kind of case can be multiplied innumerably, and I need not tell the Minister of Labour what bitterness such cases cause and how unfair and unjust they are. However, I do not wish to labour the point, because I think it is quite clear to all.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;I now wish to refer to the letter read by the hon. Member for Stoke. I had heard of this letter before when I went in my constituency with a deputation to the officials charged with the administration of supplemental pensions in that area. We brought forward between 50 and 60 cases where we stated that a separate establishment ought to have been accepted. I asked the officials how they proceeded on the matter and upon what conditions they decided whether a household was a separate household or not. They gave me a definition which appalled me. Bumbledom is certainly not yet dead in&#x000A;&lt;image src="S5CV0369P0I0668"/&gt;&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1323&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;this matter. 1 tried to examine the question for myself. I was told that if an old man lived in a separate room with his own furniture, bought his own food and cooked it, and ate it in solitude at his own table, but joined the family occasionally at their meals, and sat in the kitchen to listen to the wireless, that would prevent his room from being regarded as separate, and he would lose his supplemental pension. I said, "That is nonsense," and I was told, "It may be nonsense, but here is a document issued to us from the Board which we are applying in this case, and we think it is a fair application of the instructions given" I asked to see the instructions, but I was not allowed to do so. Time after time we have asked to be allowed to see the Rules made under the Regulations upon which these determinations are made, and we are always refused. I had heard of my hon. Friend&apos;s letter at that time. I had no copy of it, but I had seen it summarised in Supplementary Questions in the House of Commons. I produced these extracts, and the officials told me that they had never heard of it, and that it was quite contrary to the instructions they had received, in spite of the fact that it bore the signature of the Minister of Health. This matter is a very grave one. It is really anti-social to produce a situation in which an advantage is given when natural family relationships are broken up, and when old people are told that if they live with strangers, they will be given another 15s. a week, but that if they stop at home and live with their own people, they will be deprived of it. All that my hon. Friends are asking is that, if you must maintain this vicious principle of applying the household means test to old age pensioners, you should endeavour to apply it as humanely as possible and not entirely unreasonably, as it has been applied in the past.&lt;br/&gt;Mr. Gallacher: I apologise for the fact that I was not present when my Amendment&amp;#x2014;to leave out "all," in page 1, line 10&amp;#x2014;was called, because I am of the opinion that this word "all" is the operative word in the Clause. Some hon. Members have told me that that is a mistake and that, if my Amendment had been carried, it would have made the position worse, but they are labouring&#x000A;&lt;col&gt;1324&lt;/col&gt;&#x000A;under a delusion, because the Clause says that in future not all the resources of the family will be taken into account. If there are three members of the household, not all the resources will be taken into account; only the resources of one of them may be taken into account. That is what it means. If the word "all" was taken out of it, no member of the household could be brought in as far as his income is concerned, but so long as they put it that not all the resources shall be taken into account, it leaves them free to take some into account, and that is what is happening. [&lt;i&gt;Interruption&lt;/i&gt;.] Yes, I am absolutey clear about that. Hon. Members seem to have an idea that the repeal means that in future none of the resources will be taken into account. What they are repealing is the decision that all resources shall be taken into account. Anomalies will arise under this. You can have a situation where the member of the family who is actually in the worst position from the point of view of contributing is the member of the family who will have to contribute. An old friend of mine who has always advocated the repeal of the means test was very happy at the Prime Minister&apos;s statement. He thought something was going to happen. 1 met him shortly after the Bill was introduced, and he said he saw, after all his expectations, that he was going to get nothing. "I am getting sour," he said. There are many old people like that.&lt;lb/&gt;&#x000A;The question has been raised as to what constitutes a separate home. I have advised all the old folk to take a room from the family and live separately in order to qualify. If an elderly man or woman lives in a single apartment house on one side of the street and a married daughter is living across the street and comes across to prepare food when the elderly person takes ill, does that interfere with the right to a supplementary pension? No; it is a separate household. But if the elderly person has taken a room in the house of a daughter or married son and happens to be ill for a day or two and the daughter