HL Deb 03 July 1991 vol 530 cc1038-40

2AC Line 15, leave out subsection (3) and insert: ("(3) As soon as a life prisoner has served the part of his sentence specified in the order ("the relevant part") and the Board has directed his release under this section it shall be the duty of the Secretary of State to release him.

  1. (a) on licence, which shall remain in place until his death, in the case of a life prisoner convicted of an offence the sentence for which is fixed by law; and
  2. (b) in any other case, on licence, which shall remain in force for such period as the Board shall direct.").

Lord Nathan

My Lords, I beg to move, as an amendment to Commons Amendment No. 2A, Amendment No. 2AC.

Moved, That Amendment No. 2AC, as an amendment to Commons Amendment No. 2A, be agreed to.—(Lord Nathan.)

The Earl of Erroll

My Lords, I know that this has been spoken to but, as a layman, I should like to find out what is going on. So far as I can make out, on the first amendment your Lordships' House voted fairly considerably in favour of the principle of putting discretionary and mandatory sentences on the same footing for review. If we are amending the Commons amendment we have to do so consistently, so the word "discretionary" will have to be removed throughout the amendment.

Is the noble Lord the Leader of the House intending to divide us on every one of these amendments, or is he just trying to mess up our proceedings so that we leave the word in somewhere and he can then say, "I warned your Lordships that if you started tinkering you would get yourselves into a mess? What is going on?

Lord Waddington

My Lords, I can assure the noble Earl that there is no such trickery afoot. This is an entirely different issue, and I am sure that noble Lords will recognise that it has nothing whatever to do with the arguments that have been advanced about mandatory and non-discretionary life sentences. It is a completely odd suggestion that there should even be a review procedure, as it were, before you can keep a chap on licence.

6.45 p.m.

On Question, Whether Amendment No. 2AC, as an amendment to Amendment No. 2A, shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 92; Not-Contents, 77.

Division No. 3
Ackner, L. Hanworth, V.
Addington, L. Harris of Greenwich, L.
Airedale, L. Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Banks, L. Hollis of Heigham, B.
Birk, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Blease, L. Hooson, L.
Bonham-Carter, L. Houghton of Sowerby, L.
Boston of Faversham, L. Howie of Troon, L.
Bottomley, L. Hunt, L.
Brain, L. Hylton, L.
Brightman, L. Hylton-Foster, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L. Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. John-Mackie, L.
Carnock, L. Judd, L.
Carter, L. Kirkhill, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L. Lawrence, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Listowel, E.
Darcy (de Knayth), B. Lockwood, B.
Dean of Beswick, L. Longford, E.
Desai, L. McNair, L.
Dormand of Easington, L. Mallalieu, B.
Ennals, L. Merrivale, L,
Erroll, E. Monkswell, L.
Ewart-Biggs, B. Monson, L.
Ezra, L. Morris, L.
Fisher of Rednal, B. Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Gainsborough, E. Morton of Shuna, L.
Gallacher, L. Munster, E.
Galpern, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L. [Teller.] Nathan, L.
Nicol, B.
Greenway, L. Pitt of Hampstead, L.
Grey, E. Rea, L.
Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L. Redesdale, L.
Richard, L.
Halsbury, E. Robson of Kiddington, B.
Hampton, L. Rochester, L.
Hamwee, B. Russell, E.
St. Albans, Bp. Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Sefton of Garston, L. Templeman, L.
Serota, B. Tordoff, L. [Teller.]
Shannon, E. Underhill, L.
Sharpies, B. Varley, L.
Stedman, B. Wharton, B.
Stockton, E. White, B.
Stoddart of Swindon, L. Wilberforce, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L. Williams of Elvel, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E. Lane of Horsell, L.
Arran, E. Long, V.
Astor, V. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Bellwin, L. Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Belstead, L. Macleod of Borve, B.
Bessborough, E. Mancroft, L.
Blake, L. Marlesford, L.
Blatch, B. Masham of Ilton, B.
Boardman, L. Mottistone, L.
Boyd-Carpenter, L. Mountevans, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L. Mountgarret, V.
Caithness, E. Nelson, E.
Cavendish of Furness, L. Norrie, L.
Clanwilliam, E. Orkney, E.
Cockfield, L. Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Colnbrook, L. Pender, L.
Colwyn, L. Platt of Writtle, B.
Constantine of Stanmore, L. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Davidson, V. [Teller.] Rankeillour, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B. Reay, L.
Dudley, B. Renton, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L. Romney, E.
Faithfull, B. Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Ferrers, E. Savile, L.
Flather, B. Selborne, E.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L. Shrewsbury, E.
Gainford, L. Skelmersdale, L.
Gisborough, L. Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Glenarthur, L. Strathclyde, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L. Strathmore and Kinghorne, E.
Harvington, L. Sudeley, L.
Henley, L. Trefgarne, L.
Hesketh, L. [Teller.] Ullswater, V.
Hives, L. Vaux of Harrowden, L.
Hooper, B. Waddington, L.
Howe, E. Wade of Chorlton, L.
Joseph, L. Wedgwood, L.
Kenilworth, L. Wise, L.
Kimball, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and Amendment No.2AC agreed to accordingly

6.50 p.m.