§ 2. Mr. Corbyn
To ask the President of the Board of Trade what restrictions are placed on trade with Indonesia. 
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Technology (Mr. Ian Taylor)
Trade with Indonesia is subject to the normal requirements of United Kingdom law. There is no European Union or United Nations embargo on arms trade with Indonesia.
§ Mr. Corbyn
Despite the lack of an embargo by anyone else, does the Minister agree that it is incumbent on the British Government to recognise that the illegal occupation of East Timor has led to the deaths of up to 200,000 East Timorese people, that young East Timorese are being sentenced to up to three years' imprisonment for taking part in peaceful demonstrations and that journalists in Jakarta and other cities who attempt to 779 expose the facts are being given prison sentences merely for trying to speak the truth? Should not the British Government stand up against such a monstrous regime and put a total embargo on all arms sales to that country?
§ Mr. Taylor
The hon. Gentleman has made allegations in relation to East Timor which are not upheld in United Nations policies. Although the United Kingdom has not recognised the annexation of East Timor, we are relying on dialogue which is continuing at the moment under the auspices of the United Nations Secretary-General. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman belongs to a party which, like the Conservative party, supports the activities of the United Nations. Why, therefore, does he not observe the rules and regulations that the United Nations itself observes? There are no United Nations embargoes on arms sales to Indonesia. That is recognised internationally and it is recognised by the Government in dealing with any export licence applications.
§ Mr. Nicholls
Is it not interesting that Labour Members were prepared to junket around the former Soviet satellites in eastern Europe without mentioning anything about illegal occupation or the abuse of human rights which occurred there on a vastly greater scale than anything in Indonesia, yet they are prepared to malign and traduce a country that most of them could not find on a map if they were asked to do so?
§ Mr. Taylor
I should not like to comment on the geographical knowledge of Labour Members, but the abuse of human rights anywhere in the world is appalling and one cannot be selective about it, as the Labour party attempts to be, as between those friends whom they cuddle up to and those they do not.
§ Mrs. Clwyd
If the Minister is found to be at fault in his judgment that the Indonesian Government will not use equipment exported from Britain with licences granted by his Department, will there be a resignation in the Department?
§ Mr. Taylor
I am slightly puzzled by the hon. Lady's question, given that the Labour party is in favour of selling arms. If the Opposition are not in favour of selling arms, that would make for an interesting statement by a Front-Bench spokesman as it would threaten hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country.
The Government's attitude is to take careful note of the situation in any country to which we are selling arms, and of any undertakings given by the Government of that country. In the event of a change, the position on export licences would immediately be put under review.