HC Deb 17 June 1986 vol 99 cc913-1002
Mr. Speaker

I have selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. Well over 40 right hon. and hon. Gentlemen have written to me expressing their wish to take part in the debate. There may well be other hon. Members who wish to take part. Between 7 o'clock and 9 o'clock I propose to limit speeches to 10 minutes. May I say to Privy Councillors who may be called before that time that I hope that they will hear in mind that there are other hon. Members who wish to take part in the debate.

Mr. Andrew Faulds (Warley, East)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

Order. Is it connected with this debate?

Mr. Faulds

Yes, Sir. You will know, and the House is well aware — although it is often more regarded in its breach than in its observance — that if a Member of Parliament has interests he should declare them. Is it not incumbent on right hon. and hon. Members who have benefited from trips to the Republic of South Africa within the last year under the auspices of that Government to declare in this debate that they have done so, so that the House and the public can know why they speak as they do?[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman well knows that we have an established Register of Members' Interests in the House in which trips to overseas countries are recorded. Obviously, if any hon. Member has a direct financial interest, he will declare it.

3.40 pm
Mr. Denis Healey (Leeds, East)

I beg to move, That this House calls upon Her Majesty's Government, in view of the worsening situation in the Republic of South Africa and in the light of the Report of the Commonwealth Eminent Persons Group, to work actively with the European Community, the Commonwealth and the United Nations for the imposition of effective economic measures against the Government of South Africa. All hon. Members will agree that this is one of the most important issues which the House has ever debated, because the future of the people of South Africa and of the whole of the southern half of the African continent is at stake. The future of the Commonwealth is also at stake. Last year at Nassau the Prime Minister created a gulf between Britain and all other members of the Commonwealth, both old and new. If she deliberately widens that gulf this year, the Commonwealth may not survive. Moreover, Britain is a key member of all the international organisations now seized of the South African problem — the Commonwealth, the European Community, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and the United Nations. The Opposition deeply deplore the Government's refusal to send arty representative to the United Nations conference in Paris on this problem this week.

Inside South Africa a situation already intolerable to all decent people has dramatically deteriorated in the past few days. South Africa 1986 is the embodiment of the world of George Orwell's "1984". We have in South Africa today a police state in which the Government's agents have a licence to arrest without explanation and to kill without being called to account. South Africa today suffers from a news blackout far more complete than any Communist country has ever known. [Interruption] Even in Poland in the worst days of the Solidarity crisis, foreign journalists were always free to report on the persecution of Solidarity and to publish in the press or on television interviews with opponents of the regime. That is not possible in South Africa today.

Mr. Stefan Terlezki (Cardiff, West)

rose——

Mr. Healey

Armed men can break up church services, but no word may be published about what has happened. The apartheid regime has blotted out the truth in the blackest arctic night. Even before the latest state of emergency the Eminent Persons Group described the system in South Africa as "awesome in its cruelty." I am glad that the Prime Minister welcomed that report and I believe that——

Mr. Terlezki

rose——

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Mr. Healey

You have appealed to all of us, Mr. Speaker, to limit our remarks, and I do not think that I would serve the House's interests if I were to give way in the first 60 seconds of my speech.

I regard the report of the Eminent Persons Group as one of the most valuable products of the Commonwealth. It is all the more impressive because it was compiled by men and women of various parts of the Commonwealth, with many different types of experience, most of whom have little or no previous personal knowledge of apartheid on the ground. The group included a Conservative ex-Prime Minister of Australia and a Conservative ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer of Britain, who has strong financial interests in South Africa as chairman of the Standard Chartered Bank. He was appointed to the group by the Prime Minister. I hope that the report, in its Penguin publication, will have a massive circulation throughout the world. I assume that the Prime Minister shares this hope.

The report describes in chilling detail a system in which the blacks outnumber the whites by six to one, yet whites have six times more land; a system in which the living standards of the whites are 10 times higher than those of the blacks; in which the state has used, and is still using, brutal violence on a colossal scale to uproot blacks from their homes and dump them in rural slums; and which separates husbands and fathers from their wives and children—in fact, makes 8 million blacks foreigners in their own land. The report describes a system in which the shooting or torture of political opponents is accepted practice and where the state systematically uses excessive violence against peaceful demonstrators against it, including mutilating the faces of schoolchildren with sjamboks. All this is to be found in the report.

On television last week, all that the Prime Minister could find to say about the system, after reading the report, was: It must be so irritating, so full of resentment. I understand how they feel. Does she really understand? Can she really understand? Can she not see that on South Africa, as on so many issues closer to home, her total incapacity to understand how the victims of society feel about their predicament makes her unfit for office in a democratic state?

Mr. Terlezki

rose—

Mr. Healey

I am glad to say that the Eminent Persons Group was shocked and astounded by the reality of apartheid. It was equally astounded by the quality and moderation of those who oppose apartheid. It points out that for the first 13 years of this remorseless pressure the African National Congress remained loyal to Chief Luthuli's commitment to a non-violent struggle. It was only the massacre at Sharpeville which compelled them to reassess this commitment and even then the congress restricted its direct action to sabotage.

But 10 years ago another massacre in Soweto, in which most of the victims were children and a third were shot in the back, had an inevitable consequence. The provocation was more than flesh and blood could stand, but the Eminent Persons Group points out that, in the past 20 years, only 20 deaths have been the result of action by members of ANC when thousands were killed by the Government forces.

Mr. Terlezki

rose—

Mr. Healey

Sit down. The Eminent Persons Group—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that the right hon. Gentleman is not giving way and he must not persist.

Mr. Healey

The Eminent Persons Group found the leaders of the ANC and the United Democratic Front whom they met, to be men of moderation—

Mr. Terlezki

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I shall have to hear it, but is it a point of order?

Mr. Terlezki

Yes, Sir. I seek your guidance about whether I am entitled to ask the right hon. Gentleman—

Hon. Members

No.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I have told the hon. Gentleman that if the right hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey) does not give away the hon. Gentleman must not persist.

Mr. Terlezki

There is no harm in trying.

Mr. Healey

They were found to be men of moderation who wanted to achieve a multiracial society by peaceful negotiations and prepared to suspend the use of violence to achieve it. I am again drawing upon the report which the Prime Minister has rightly praised.

Until very recently, the Government refused all contact with members of the ANC. Even now, they refuse to allow their Ministers to talk to the ANC, although American Ministers do so regularly. Instead, the British Government, like the American Government, chose the path of what they called constructive engagement with apartheid. The apartheid regime rewarded them with systematic deception. Again, I quote the Eminent Persons Group, which said: The SA Government has perfected a specialised political vocabulary which while saying one thing, means quite another". The Prime Minister and President Reagan swallowed it hook, line and sinker. The House will recall being told by the Prime Minister two years ago that President Botha had agreed with her to take his troops out of Angola. They have been there ever since, even to the extent of blowing up American oil installations at Kabinda. Only last week they were shelling a port in Angola.

On 9 October 1984, the Foreign Secretary told us that there were encouraging developments in the Nkomati accord with Mozambique and rapid progress on Namibia, but President Botha broke the Nkomati accord even before the ink was dry, set up a puppet Government in Namibia and is now conducting military action against neighbouring Commonwealth countries, starting with attacks at the very moment at which the Eminent Persons Group was about to meet Ministers.

President Botha has played the Prime Minister and President Reagan for suckers. He finally admitted it last week when he said in his address to his own Parliament that countries which do not invoke sanctions against South Africa can continue to trade with her but cannot expect to exert any political influence on what the South African Government do, so that constructive engagement was a farce from the beginning. The Prime Minister herself agreed to that at Nassau last year because she signed a communiqué which said that the policy of constructive engagement was a failure in both of its objectives —ending apartheid, and getting freedom for Namibia.

It is sometimes argued that what happens inside South Africa is none of our business, but South African aggression against its Commonwealth neighbours is our business. It is the business of the whole of the outside world. This aspect of the problem has received far too little attention in the House and elsewhere.

Since 1980, the South African Government have engaged in systematic use of armed force against eight majority ruled states in the region. The list of its violations of international law makes a crime sheet of daunting terror. We have had South Africa invading the capitals of three independent countries and invading four other countries. We have had South Africa trying to assassinate the Prime Ministers of two neighbouring states. We have seen South Africa backing terrorism, which has brought two of its neighbouring states to economic chaos and which has caused grave disorder in two others.

South Africa has disrupted deliberately the oil supplies of six of its neighbours and it has attacked the vital railway communications of seven of its neighbours. In consequence of South African action in neighbouring states—these figures are quoted in the report—100,000 people have died and millions have been displaced. It cost the region $10 billion in the years 1980 to 1984—more than all the financial assistance that it received from the outside world. It is now costing the region about $5 billion a year.

Mr. John Carlisle (Luton, North)

The right hon. Gentleman has referred to the alleged cost of South African actions. What would he the cost of the economic sanctions that the right hon. Gentleman supports to the rest of the Commonwealth and to the West if such sanctions were to be imposed?

Mr. Healey

I am very grateful, for once, to the hon. Gentleman, because that is precisely the point to which I am about to turn.

It is the cost already imposed by the apartheid regime on South Africa's Commonwealth neighbours which has led all of them, despite the real risk of economic sanctions, to support sanctions as the only means of shortening their agony. President Kaunda of Zambia used those very words this week on BBC radio. It is no good the hon. Member for Luton, North (Mr. Carlisle) shaking his head. That is President Kaunda's view. He knows better what is in the interests of his country than a Member of Parliament who has accepted hospitality from the apartheid regime in South Africa.

If the present situation continues, agony it will be. In introducing his report the other day, Mr. Malcolm Fraser said that the slaughter and bloodshed would be worse than in Vietnam. The Commonwealth group as a whole said that it could be the worst bloodbath since the Second World War. And it is a bloodbath, as Mr. Fraser pointed out, that the blacks are bound to win in the end but that they want to avoid, if humanly possible.

The Eminent Persons Group describes the leaders of the African National Congress and the United Democratic Front as men of goodwill who want a multiracial society. I prefer its views to those of the prejudiced bigots who sit below the Gangway on the other side of the House. But the Eminent Persons Group also reached the conclusion that there cannot be peaceful negotiations unless effective economic measures, as set out in paragraph 352 of the report, are applied by the outside world. The key paragraph of the report is the penultimate one, paragraph 354. It says: The question in front of Heads of Government is in our view clear. It is not whether such measures will compel change; it is already the case that their absence and Pretoria's belief that they need not be feared defers change. That is a direct condemnation of the Prime Minister by a jury of her peers, a jury that she helped to appoint. It was her action at Nassau that prevented effective action by the Commonwealth and she gloated about it when she came back to Parliament. If she were to veto action once again, the delay could be fatal for South Africa and inflict lasting shame on her Government, a shame from which I fear the British people as a whole could not escape. Indeed, if the Prime Minister vetoes action once again, then, as Mr. Fraser made clear, the Government who emerge from a decade of mounting violence will be bitterly hostile to Britain and the West. All our economic interests will be destroyed and all our hopes of political influence will be gone. We have seen this already in Angola and Mozambique, and we would have seen it in Zimbabwe if Lord Carrington had not persuaded the Prime Minister to reverse her policy just in time.

The future of South Africa is even more important than what has happened in other neighbouring countries. South Africa has a major population, important natural resources, a developed industry and a large mass of skilled manpower. It also occupies an important strategic position. To throw those assets away because of the imperious vanity of one person would be inexcusable folly.

How we tackle this important issue may yet determine whether the Commonwealth survives as an institution. I regret warnings given by some Commonwealth leaders that they may leave the Commonwealth if the Prime Minister exercises, her veto again.

Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield)

Good riddance.

Mr. Healey

I hope that they would not carry it out, because within two years we shall have another British Government which will have a very different policy on South Africa.

The Government cannot ignore those warnings, nor, as the Prime Minister knows, can the Palace. If the Prime Minister prefers to use the word "measures" rather than "sanctions" to save her face, I have no objections, nor has the Commonwealth, although I am bound to say that, in a discussion with me on television last week——

Sir John Biggs-Davison (Epping Forest)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it in order for a right hon. Gentleman to seek to involve the Palace in a debate in support of his argument?

Mr. Speaker

Order. I do not think that the right hon. Gentleman was wrong. However, it is not in order to use members of the Royal Family to influence the debate in any way.

Mr. Healey

I am grateful for your advice Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Robin Maxwell-Hyslop (Tiverton)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. It must be in order, because it cannot be avoided in this debate, to point out the position of one who is the Queen of the Commonwealth and not just of the United Kingdom.

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman knows "Erskine May" as well as any hon. Member. He knows that it is not in order to use members of the royal family to advance arguments in a debate.

Mr. Allan Roberts (Bootle)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Although I accept your ruling that it is not in order to use members of the royal family to further an argument, cannot one refer to the Head of State and to the Head of the Commonwealth?

Mr. Speaker

Order. I think that I can clear this matter easily. I have already said that the right hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey) was in order to refer to the Palace, but that it is not in order to use members of the royal family in advancing an argument.

Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. This is not a superficial matter. It is wholly out of order in the House to criticise the Monarchy. It must be in order to debate the position in which the Head of the Commonwealth is placed by policies that may or may not be advanced.

Mr. Speaker

Order. That is not in dispute.

Mr. Healey

I thank you for endorsing my words, Mr. Speaker, which were used at Prime Minister's Question Time today, and have been used by hon. Members at other times.

The arguments that the Government are using against sanctions look increasingly threadbare and contradictory. The first argument, which the Prime Minister uses every time that she appears on television, is that they never work; but if they never work, why did she impose sanctions on Poland, to deal entirely with the internal situation, on Argentina, Libya and Iran, and accept them on Zimbabwe by not opposing them when in opposition? She knows as well as I do that the sanctions imposed on Iran, Argentina and Zimbabwe played an important role in the resolution of those issues.

The United States is also operating sanctions against Nicaragua, and when it was accused yesterday of some inconsistency a spokesperson of the State Department said that if South Africa were a Communist dictatorship, it would be different. I suspect that that is the secret, private view of the Prime Minister.

The second argument is that sanctions would hurt the blacks and the front-line states, which would not like them. However, all the representatives of the blacks except Chief Buthelezi have argued that they want sanctions in order to shorten their agony, and this is the argument used by the front-line states as well because, like the Eminent Persons Group, whose work the Prime Minister has commended to us, they see sanctions as offering the only hope of promoting dialogue between the regime and the blacks.

I find it slightly disgraceful that the Government sneer at countries such as Bermuda and Australia that might make economic gains out of sanctions, but sneer even more loudly at Governments that support sanctions but know that they will suffer as a consequence. I find that profoundly distasteful and typically graceless of the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister's real concern is with her view of Britain's economic interests. I remind her that in 1986 we are not talking of economic interests as they were in 1946, 1956, 1966 or 1976. The value of our investments has already fallen by half with the value of the rand, and more and more British companies as well as multinationals are getting out as fast as they can. There is the imminent prospect of the South African Government imposing exchange controls, which will prevent British companies from repatriating their profits, and an immediate prospect of South Africa defaulting on its debts. South Africa is no longer a shining pillar of industrial enterprise. It is sliding fast into the condition of the banana republic.

Why do the Government oppose sanctions? Having read the Government's amendment, I ask myself whether they oppose sanctions. The Government's amendment would be quite acceptable to me, provided the omission of the word "economic" does not exclude economic measures. The objectives that the Government set out in their amendment are acceptable, as I have already made clear. Indeed I was tempted to accept the Government amendment when I started, and if the Foreign Secretary can allay my doubts about the meaning of the amendment I may still discuss with my right hon. and hon. Friends the possibility of accepting it.

Make no mistake, if the Government mean what they say, and if the words are not part of the South African vocabulary that long contact has led the Government to adopt, they are committing themselves to a course of action that means increasing pressure on the apartheid regime, steadily over a number of years, until it finally agrees to negotiations.

The objective set by the Government—the suspension of violence — has been accepted by the ANC and rejected by the South African Government. Any effective measures taken at this time must, as a minimum, mean all the measures on which other members of the Commonwealth agreed at Nassau, plus the measures now being put to the American Congress which, I gather, are certain to be passed by the House of Representatives and perhaps the Senate.

I believe that circumstances will compel the outside world to increase pressure on South Africa as the crisis deepens and as the slaughter mounts. We would be wise to consider — I hope that the Government are considering it — graduating economic and other measures to be applied at intervals, as envisaged at the Nassau meeting, until finally netgotiation takes place.

If that is what the Government are recommending to the House, that is fine by me. If not—if they are simply weasel words by which the Government hope to escape criticism and responsibility for a few months— I warn them that they are riding straight for disaster. If the Prime Minister believes that she can, once again, come out of a a Commonwealth summit bosting that she has outwitted her colleagues, that she has given only a "tiny hit" of what they asked for, she will be condemning this country and the Commonwealth to disaster.

I put to the Prime Minister and her colleagues that, at this time, manner is almost as important as matter. We in Britain have become used to the chilly indifference of the Prime Minister to human suffering. We are used to her armour-plated complacency on issues where her ignorance is total. We are used to it, but we are also sick and tired of it. We cannot accept the monstrous, sacro-egoismo which allowed her to say on television last week, "If I were the odd one out and I were right, it would not matter. would it.?"

I ask the Prime Minister to recall that she is not always right. She nearly wrecked the negotiations in Hong Kong before they started by her disastrous pontificating in Beijing and Hong Kong from which the Foreign Secretary. doughty fighter for British interests that he is, finally rescued her. She would have wrecked the negotiations on Zimbabwe if the then Foreign Secretary had not pulled her back from the brink. She could have brought down the Government on the Westland and British Leyland affair earlier this year by her certainty that she is always right. If she allows her fatal, conditioned reflexes to determine her actions on this crucial question, she will bring disaster to Britain, the Commonwealth and the whole of southern Africa.

4.13 pm
The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Sir Geoffrey Howe)

I beg to move, to leave out from 'House' to the end of the Question and to add instead thereof: 'calls upon Her Majesty's Government, in view of the worsening situation in the Republic of South Africa and in the light of the Report of the Commonwealth Eminent Persons Group, to work actively with the European Community, the Commonwealth, and the Economic Summit Seven countries for effective measures which will help achieve a peaceful solution in South Africa based on negotiations and a suspension of violence on all sides.'. The right hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey) has engaged the House with a characteristically simplistic opening to the debate. He closed by enunciating a number of the Government's achievements — the conclusion of the Zimbabwe independence negotiations, the conclusion of the Hong Kong joint declaration. the conclusions of the Commonwealth-Nassau declaration, and the conclusion of the Fontainebleau summit of the European Community. The achievement of each of those successes was due to the leadership of the Government by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister.

The right hon. Gentleman referred to the concept of imperious vanity. There is no more outstanding example in the House of imperious vanity than the right hon. Gentleman. I do not want to be unfair to the right hon. Gentleman, but if I had to identify one consistent thread running through his entire approach to foreign policy, it would be his insistence that Britain should now do everything that it did not do when his party was in government. The right hon. Gentleman has become an echo of his pupil's voice. If the problem were as easy to solve as the right hon. Gentleman suggests, it would have been solved long ago.

I am able to start the debate from one plain piece of common ground. On behalf of the Government, I join the right hon. Gentleman in expressing our complete and absolute condemnation of apartheid and indeed of racialism wherever it is practised in the world. I have visited South Africa only once. That visit included a visit to Soweto under the guidance of a black community leader. Those responsible for my arrangements had not found it possible to organise such a visit in my programme.

We entered the township in Soweto 10½ years ago without a pass and without leave. Whenever we saw a South Africa police vehicle — the presence of such vehicles was not inconspicuous—we had to turn quickly out of sight. Our guide felt and had to behave as if she were — I take the graphic phrase from the report of the Eminent Persons Group — "an alien in her own country". That was an alarming and a deeply moving experience. We forecast with unhappy precision almost exactly the tragic explosion of violence that occurred a few months later, 10 years ago. Such incidents are inevitable in a society that has institutionalised the denial of human rights, that has done so, and continues to do so, explicitly on racial grounds. That is the vice of apartheid, which is condemned by all hon. Members.

In January, President Botha, reaching forward to a better future, described apartheid as "outmoded". No phrase could have been more revealing because, for the rest of the world, such institutionalised discrimination has never been acceptable. Apartheid casts a heavy shadow, not only over South Africa but over the entire region. It is the defence of that indefensible system that has brought South Africa into conflict with her neighbours. For the people of this country, for successive Governments of this country, the problems of South Africa and the impact of apartheid have been for decades a cause of profound and growing anxiety.

We have major economic interests in South Africa. That fact was completely ignored by the right hon. Gentleman. He took no account of the extent to which British capital, skills and people have contributed much to South Africa's economic vitality. In considering the measures we should adopt to promote change in South Africa, it would be quite wrong to overlook completely the fact that up to 120,000 jobs in this country still depend directly on trade with South Africa. One is entitled to ask: what guarantee is there that, if those jobs were destroyed in Britain, they would not be recreated elsewhere in the world?

Mr. Allan Roberts

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree with the statement by the President of Zimbabwe that, by not applying sanctions, the British Government are protecting British interests in South Africa but, unless sanctions are applied, those interests will go up in flames?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I do not propose to deal with the speech of the President of Zimbabwe.

In considering the difficult balance that we must strike, it would be wrong to disregard entirely those interests. There are other ties as well. It is estimated that there are at least 2 million persons of British birth and descent in South Africa, of whom 800,000 or more may be entitled to claim the right of abode in this country. All those people aspire to play a part in the development of South Africa; so, too, do all the other peoples of South Africa —so, too, does the black majority—yet, for all of them, that future is at risk, if it is to be dominated by armed struggle, racial conflict and bloodshed. Much more than their future will be at risk, if the South Africa that eventually emerges from such conflict sees itself as having done so in the face of opposition from Britain or the West.

It is against that background that my right hon. Friend. the Prime Minister and I have repeatedly made plain the objectives of our policy towards South Africa. We wish apartheid to be brought to an end at the earliest possible date. We wish to see established in its place a non-racial society with democratic, representative government and with proper safeguards for all minorities. That can be the only secure foundation of a prosperous South Africa, living in harmony with its neighbours. We wish those changes to be brought about peacefully, without violence, by dialogue and reform, not by revolution.

It would not help in any way to promote change of that kind if we were to implement policies that would ruin the South African economy, risk economic upheaval for South Africa's neighbours, fuel an explosion of mounting racial strife and tribal violence and risk possibly grave consequences for racial tolerance throughout the world. It is precisely to avoid such consequences that we hake for so long concerned ourselves with the future of South Africa and of all its people.

In that context, it is wrong to see the question of "sanctions" — to use that hard-worked, over-simplified word—as though it is one that has arisen today. this year, last year, for the first time. For years, successive British Governments have been taking measures to hasten the process of peaceful change in South Africa. Those measures have helped to press the case for change in South Africa; so, clearly, too, have the mounting pressure of events in South Africa and the growing economic pressures from the world outside. Increasingly, the judgment of world capital markets has been bringing borne to South Africa the urgency of the need for far-reaching change. Changes have been made but, so far as I could hear, the right hon. Member for Leeds, East did not acknowledge them. It is only right that we should acknowledge them.

Mr. A. J. Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed)

Were not the banks facing precisely the risks which the right hon. and learned Gentleman has just described for the South African economy when they threatened not to reschedule South Africa's debt? Was that not the most powerful instrument for change that we have seen in recent years?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

Measures of that kind taken as part of the course of business dealings are measures from which neither party can sensibly escape. They strike home dramatically and plainly on those responsible for deciding matters concerning the economy. They are different from measures of the type under discussion being imposed collectively by the world outside.

In the past year or two, we have seen the repeal of much petty apartheid, including the Mixed Marriages Act, section 16 of the Immorality Act and the Prohibition of Political Interference Act. Those matters cannot be brushed aside. We have seen fundamental reforms in labour legislation and the extension of freehold rights to urban blacks. Only a few weeks ago, a Bill to reform the pass laws was introduced. A year or two ago, those changes would have been beyond imagination. One must acknowledge that they have been made.

Dame Judith Hart (Clydesdale)

rose——

Sir Geoffrey Howe

Most members of the South African Government no longer try to defend the apartheid system. They have recognised the need for fundamental reform.

Dame Judith Hart

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am sorry; I shall not give way at the moment.

The South African Government have begun to find the courage to make a start on that task, but they have not yet found the final courage of conviction that apartheid in all its guises must be swept away. That conviction is necessary. In the absence of that commitment, the tide of violence has continued to rise. That tide reflects the anger and frustration of people who, in the words of the report of the Eminent Persons Group, are no longer prepared to submit to the oppression, discrimination and exploitation of apartheid.

It is still possible to assert that what is going on in South Africa is primarily a matter of law and order, but that is to miss the real issues. Of course we must recognise that there is an internal security problem in South Africa. No one who learned of the Durban bomb explosion on Saturday or heard of the appalling necklace killings or other incidents of brutality in the townships can fail to have been chilled by what is happening. We cannot, and must not, turn a blind eye to that. Such action will not bring justice in South Africa one day nearer hut, as the report of the Eminent Persons Group rightly pointed out, violence is firmly rooted in the apartheid system. Treating the diverse forms of violence only as a security problem, without tackling the underlying cause of the problem, can only make things worse. It is that underlying problem, the nature of the system itself, that stands in need of change —change not by violence but by dialogue, in the context of a suspension of violence on all sides.

It was for that purpose that last autumn the international community decided to put in place a series of additional measures designed to hasten the process of change—the United States Congress on 9 September, the European Community countries at Luxembourg on 10 September and, finally, the Commonwealth at Nassau on 20 October. In none of those cases was the approach based solely on taking measures against South Africa.

The Commonwealth's approach, particularly, was combined with a political initiative. The establishment of the Eminent Persons Group was a far-sighted endeavour to break the impasse and to end the cycle of violence. We arrived at that conclusion as a result not of the "isolation" of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister but of our determination to act in concert with the rest of the Commonwealth in support of the establishment of the group. The Eminent Persons Group could never have been put in place without the energetic support of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister.

Mr. Frank Cook (Stockton, North)

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman explain why he finds it so necessary to oppose economic measures in the instance of South Africa when, within the Commonwealth, he countenances the application of economic measures against a Commonwealth ally simply because of its reluctance to have nuclear weapons within its territory? I refer to New Zealand.

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman's intervention is a mile from the point under discussion. We shall look forward to hearing his views on relations between this country and New Zealand in a different context and at a different time.

When we met at Nassau and contemplated the possibility of forming the Eminent Persons Group and creating a political initiative that would help to find a way forward in South Africa, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister had clearly in mind the part played by the Commonwealth some years before at the Lusaka conference. But on that occasion, it was the intervention by the Commonwealth that created the circumstances in which it was possible for the Government under my right hon. Friend's leadership to bring about a solution to the long-standing problem in Rhodesia and Zimbabwe. It is a matter on which the Government and my right hon. Friend are entitled to massive credit. The problem eluded solution for years under the Labour Government. We concluded that the Commonwealth conference at Nassau was right to try to formulate an initiative that would pave the way forward for a new solution in South Africa.

Mr. Faulds

Is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman—for whom the House has much regard and for whom I have a great personal regard—as a major Minister speaking from the Government Benches on this momentous and appalling issue ashamed of himself to be speaking in such feeble terms?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am deeply moved by the regard in which the hon. Gentleman claims to hold me, although I am continually astonished by the way in which he chooses to express it.

Mr. Faulds

I love the right hon. and learned Gentleman but he does not deserve it.

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I bask in glory at that tribute.

The Commonwealth group showed the range of expertise and experience that the Commonwealth can offer. The fact that we were able to fashion that group underlines the importance of the Commonwealth to this country and the world. What is more important is that the initiative attracted growing support, not just from the Commonwealth but from the rest of the world.

The group was set a specific task by the Commonwealth Heads of Government: to encourage the process of peaceful political dialogue in South Africa in the context of a suspension of violence on all sides.

The Commonwealth Heads of Government called upon the South African Government to take a series of specific steps: to declare that the system of apartheid would be dismantled and to set out what specific actions it would take to achieve that end; to terminate the state of emergency; to release immediately and unconditionally Nelson Mandela and all others imprisoned or detained for their opposition to apartheid and to establish political freedom, in particular by lifting the ban on the ANC and other political parties. One has only to read that list to regret the lack of progress that has been made.

However, the group was able to make much more progress than many expected. It was able to overcome the initial climate of suspicion and distrust. It offered the South African Government an unprecedented opportunity to break out of the vicious circle of violence. The group offered the negotiating concept which it had discussed with opposition groups and Nelson Mandela. It must be to the great regret of the House, as it is to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and myself, that the South African Government have so far declined to take that opportunity. The way ahead is inevitably more difficult. We shall still urge upon the South African Government the need to be ready to think again about that.

Even if the group did not secure the breakthrough for which we all wished, it has charted a course for the negotiations that must eventually take place. It has identified many of the obstacles ahead and some of the ways round them. Its mission would have been worthwhile for that alone. We all owe the Eminent Persons Group a debt of gratitude for the dedication and effort it brought to its task. I am sure that the House will join me in extending our warmest thanks to the group.

Mr. Neil Kinnock (Islwyn)

I echo the debt of gratitude to the Eminent Persons Group. The right hon. and learned Gentleman has frequently referred to negotiations, as has the Prime Minister, and he has referred to dialogue. Does he realise that the Eminent Persons Group said that the concrete and adequate progress which it looked for has not materialised? It says: in recent weeks the Government would appear to have moved consciously away from any realistic negotiating process. I live in hope, as does the right hon. and learned Gentleman. However, what grounds for hope has he got that the Botha Government will enter into any realistic negotiations?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

It is because the group concluded as it did that the House is contemplating the motion and the amendment for the consideration of measures in that context. One must still believe that the mission, which went as far as it did, which helped to identify the way in which negotiations could take place, can be our starting point.

Whatever our standpoint, even starting from the position of the right hon. Member for Islwyn (Mr. Kinnock), we must ensure that the contribution made by the group is not wasted. In the end—sooner, rather than later, we must all hope—the only way forward is to be found by dialogue and negotiation. If the task is harder today than it was six months ago—and it surely is—the objectives must surely remain the same as those defined at Nassau.

Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop

There are one or two questions to which my right hon. and learned Friend has not yet addressed himself. Is it not the case that South Africa is the only country to which Britain has ever given independence without the entire population being entitled to elect the successor Government? Therefore, does that not give us a particular obligation, which we have in no other circumstances?

Secondly, my right hon. and learned Friend rightly refers to peaceful negotiation and the consequences. However, if South Africa threatens or executes military action against its neighbours such as Botswana, or strangles them economically, should we not warn South Africa that that is an act of war, which will be met accordingly?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

My hon. Friend has raised two points which he obviously intends to develop later. They are both points which deserve further examination. In answer to my hon. Friend's first question I would say that I am not sure that he is right in his historical analysis. He generally is right. Certainly, the background of South African independence is one reason, not the only reason, for substantial and continuing concern by this Parliament on the future of South Africa.

Two propositions stand out today with even greater clarity than before. First, it becomes increasingly clear that, in the long run, the forces of law and order in South Africa will be able to maintain the peace only if their authority is founded clearly upon the consent of all the races in South Africa. That lesson must be learned and applied.

Secondly, it is also increasingly clear that the key to the commencement of dialogue, if one has to try to find one key, is the unconditional release of Nelson Mandela. That must be seen as the most important act of reconciliation that is necessary to pave the way for peace.

Mr. John Townend (Bridlington)

rose—

Sir Geoffrey Howe

It is to secure swift progress in that direction that we need, as our amendment points out, effective and co-ordinated international action. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said on 13 June: We have to consider what would be the measures that would he most likely to bring about the change we all wish to see, which is the end of apartheid and the black people of South Africa having rights which they do not have now, rights to take part in the democratic process of the country. My right hon. Friend's words are an accurate description of our objectives. The right hon. Member for Leeds, East has argued that only the imposition of sweeping measures aimed directly at the South African economy can force that progress. The Eminent Persons Group reaches no conclusions as to the measures which should be adopted.

Mr. Healey

The right hon. and learned Gentleman must be aware that the Eminent Persons Group says: We are convinced that the South African Government is concerned about the adoption of effective economic measures against it. If it comes to the conclusion that it would always remain protected from such measures, the process of change in South Africa is unlikely to increase in momentum and the descent into violence would be accelerated. In these circumstances, the cost in lives may have to be counted in millions…it is already the case that their absence, and Pretoria's belief that they need not be feared, defers change. If that is not a demand for economic measures to influence the South African Government, what the devil is it?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

The Eminent Persons Group plainly leaves it, as the Commonwealth Heads of Government did, which is absolutely right, for the Commonwealth Heads of Government to consider and decide what measures should now be taken. It is in those circumstances that the House is now considering it.

All experience teaches us that such measures directed at the economy of a country, punitively on a universal basis, are most unlikely to be effectively enforced worldwide. The right hon. Member for Leeds, East cited the case of Poland. He must know that in that case economic measures did not produce the effects intended. He cited the case of Rhodesia and he must know that they did not produce the effects intended in that case. If ever they were to be applied in that way to South Africa, their effect would be almost entirely negative. No one should under-estimate the length of time for which resistance within South Africa could be maintained if that economy was seen to be under seige. Meanwhile, there would be severe and long-term consequences for the whole of southern Africa. That is the basis on which the Government are now considering, in consultation with the international community, what measures should be put in place. I shall tell the House the principles that we should have in mind when considering that question.

If such measures are to be effective, any steps that we take must be directed not at the destruction of the South African economy but at influencing opinion in South Africa more firmly in the direction of reform. If they are to be effective, any steps that we take must give the South African Government the incentive to respond positively rather than the excuse to retreat still further into isolation. If they are to be effective, any steps that we take should be designed to encourage the South African Government and the South African business community to press ahead with the agenda of reform. If such measures are to be effective, any steps that we take should be calculated to command, and should secure, the fullest international support at every stage. In the absence of such support, any action would be no more than an empty gesture.

As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister told the House last Thursday, we shall now be in touch with our Commonwealth partners, our European partners, and our economic summit partners to discuss this report."—[Official Report, 12 June 1986; Vol. 99, c. 490.] As the House knows, the seven Commonwealth Heads of Government appointed at Nassau, including my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, will be meeting for that purpose in early August in London. We shall of course be in touch with the other Commonwealth Heads of Government long before then.

Meanwhile, we are consulting with Governments of the summit seven. Within Europe, consultations have already begun. At yesterday's meeting of the Community's Foreign Affairs Council in Luxembourg, we had an exchange of views, and commissioned an urgent report from our Political Directors. The Government will be taking a leading and active part in all of these discussions.

As stated in the amendment, which I commend to the House, we shall be working for measures that will be effective in helping to achieve a peaceful solution in South Africa.

Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West)

rose—

Sir Geoffrey Howe

South Africa is a land that we all know to be rich in human and other resources. Yet today South Africa stands closer to a future of violence and misery than ever before. That prospect can be averted only by a process of genuine dialogue and reconciliation. That requires two things: first, the total renunciation of apartheid in all its forms, and secondly, the suspension of violence. Only the Government and peoples of South Africa can achieve those things. Above all, it is for the South African Government to act, and act now.

Mr. John Hume (Foyle)

rose—

Sir Geoffrey Howe

The international community acting together, can and should take steps to encourage the South African Government to take that action. This Government can and will work actively with our international partners to promote that action now, before it is too late. I invite the House to support the amendment.

4.42 pm
Dr. David Owen (Plymouth, Devonport)

It must be clear to anyone who listened to the Foreign Secretary's speech that the Government have not made up their mind what, if anything, they intend to do. That may be an advantage to us all, because this debate has come early enough to influence possibly some of the decisions. Indeed, it is helpful to us that the Prime Minister is in her place in the Chamber. No one is under any illusion but that it is the Prime Minister who will determine whether this country takes the responsible action now necessary to maintain the unity of the Commonwealth.

I believe that an important crack has appeared in the solid facade that white South Africa has presented to the world. There are signs of a crack in the moral judgment of the Dutch Reform Church. Its council is meeting in October, and there are signs that if we can bring international pressure to bear, through the whole international body of Churches, an extremely important change may be made in those very things that underpin apartheid. I say to the Prime Minister that on this issue, above all, a little more genuine moral indignation about what is going on in South Africa would not come amiss.

Without indulging in moral judgments, there is still a desperate need to show that this country is prepared to pay a price in order to live up to our feeling of moral repugnance at what is going on inside South Africa. We must not judge every economic action that may be necessary by the cost to us. There will be costs. Let us evaluate them carefully and make effective judgments.

There has also been a shift of National opinion. It is only a start, but National Members of Parliament are no longer an absolutely solid block. Many of them have understood that they can no longer mend their fences or build bridges back to the far Right. The far Right has chosen its course, and the Nationals are increasingly having to keep the support of the majority of the whites in South Africa, which often includes the English-speaking population. There is now a grouping that goes across Afrikaner and English-speaking South Africans.

There is a major crack, which could become a fissure, in the business and commercial community. It is only too well aware that the pressures from the international business world are increasing so savagely that it will not be long before the economy can no longer stand the strain. The withdrawal of confidence and the private bank actions of last year and this year were of crucial importance in that regard.

Against such a background, what action is needed? Any sanction or measure must have the support of the entire international community. We saw what happened in Rhodesia without the solid support of the international community. But before the Prime Minister can pray in aid the failure of sanctions on Rhodesia, she should acknowledge that one of the greatest weaknesses was that the common border between Rhodesia and South Africa was openly and totally breached with the full connivance of the South African Government.

Furthermore, only a brief reading of the Bingham report shows that successive British Governments connived in the breaking of sanctions. Therefore, it does not lie in the mouths of right hon. and hon. Members to say that sanctions did not work in Rhodesia. Nevertheless, for 15 years sanctions were one of the only ways of showing the world's condemnation of what was going on inside Rhodesia. Although ultimately the armed struggle was the critical pressure, no historian of the independence of Zimbabwe will ever say that sanctions had no impact on the Smith regime. They did. The tragedy was that they could have been much more powerful, and that if they had been carefully and determinedly applied, the armed struggle would not have reaped such a toll.

Mr. Jim Spicer (Dorset, West)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Dr. Owen

No, because Mr. Speaker has asked us to be brief.

Mr. Spicer

rose—

Dr. Owen

All right: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Spicer

The right hon. Gentleman has made it clear that he believes that sanctions can be effective only if they have total support. He was Foreign Secretary when we had an arms embargo that in theory had the support of the whole world. Yet he must have know, as everyone else did, that although we honoured the embargo throughout that period, other countries were supplying arms on a massive scale. There was no problem whatever from the South African Government.

Dr. Owen

The hon. Gentleman has made my point. The arms embargo was dishonoured when it was not mandatory. But from 1977 onwards, when it became mandatory, there were many fewer breaches. There were some minor but important breaches, but a fundamental change came about when mandatory sanctions were applied in 1977. The South Africans have developed an arms industry, and if we take action, they will, of course, develop their own indigenous supplies.

However, I turn to the specific areas in which this Government should lead international opinion in taking action against South Africa. First, they should recognise that we must cross the threshold of economic sanctions. The best way of doing that is to put a ban on new investment. That would not have an immediate impact. It would not immediately create mass unemployment, but it would he the clearest and most positive signal to South Africa's business community that the squeeze was being, and would be, relentlessly applied. The South African Government know that there must be a topping up of new investment year in, year out, if the economy is to deal with the demographic and social problems and the strains which are imposed upon it.

It would be beneficial if we could devise an international strategy that would restrict loans to South Africa, but we should be under no illusion that other than for direct Government-to-Government loans that would be difficult to apply. There has been a good deal of experience in this, following the United States attempt to ban loans to Iran. The legislation that the United States Government introduced then and, indeed, the legislation that is before the Senate and the House of Representatives at the moment on the banning of private loans as well might be helpful. That is the most important economic pressure. It will bite slowly but it will he a clear indication to the South African Government that the patience of the international community is fast running out.

The other measure to which I should like to give serious consideration is a ban on direct intercontinental air travel into South Africa. Understandably that causes concern in this country as there are 800,000 people in South Africa with United Kingdom passports. People feel that they would not be able to visit relatives in South Africa. They are afraid that if relatives were ill, they would not be able to go there to visit them in hospital. But there would riot be a total ban on air flights into South Africa; it would be a ban on direct flights. Humanitarian flights through the rest of Africa would still be allowed; people could fly out of and into South Africa only by flying to an airfield which was in the control of a black African Government. For the first time, the balance of power in Africa would be tilted in favour of the black states. The problem at the moment is that the black states, particularly those surrounding South Africa, are dependent on rail links into South Africa and out through South African ports.

The House has only to think what would happen were there to be a ban on all intercontinental direct flights into South Africa. The ban would have to be applied by the Swiss as well. It is no use having an exclusion clause for flights to Zurich and Geneva. If there were a total ban on intercontinental direct flights, business men would have to travel through black African countries. If the South African Government carried out a raid against Gaborone, Harare or Lusaka, as they did in outrageous circumstances a few weeks ago, those black African states would no longer allow direct flights between their countries and South Africa and the whole balance of power would have shifted—

Mr. John Carlisle

rose—

Dr. Owen

No, I shall not give way. The hon. Gentleman can make his statements in support of the South African Government later in the House or, as he frequently does, elsewhere.

The banning of direct flights would exert powerful pressure, which should be applied now.

One other sanction has been much discussed—it has been suggested by the Commonwealth and also by the Dutch Government in the European Community —namely, whether we ought to take action against trade in fruit and vegetables. I need to be convinced about that. The best argument for it is that it would be a way of impacting on the Afrikaans farmer. I think that such action could be evaded and would not have much pressure, but, in singling out the different groups of people to whom we have to bring home the impatience of the world, the Afrikaans farmer is an important element. That sanction might be undertaken in the full knowledge that over the medium term it might not have a great impact, but in the short term, until it could be evaded, it might have a psychological impact.

Mr. Robert Jackson (Wantage)

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that many people in fruit farming in South Africa are not Afrikaners? Much more important, does he accept that the people who work on fruit farms — the blacks— are often the worst paid and that they would immediately be the most severely hit by that sanction?

Dr. Owen

I agree that that is an objection, but we have to take account of the fact that those black workers, not just their leaders, are saying loud and clear that they want sanctions to be applied. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Time and again we hear from Conservative Members, who risk neither their lives nor their income, that no sanctions should be taken. The fact is that black South Africans are now prepared, as events increasingly show, to risk their lives. They are prepared to lose their income. They went on strike yesterday to remember the massacre in Soweto. They lost their income when they did that. It is not a question that they are not prepared to make a sacrifice. Is this country not prepared to make any sacrifice?

The honest answer must be faced: that there is now a mood in South Africa among the blacks that they are prepared to endure sacrifices to win their freedom. The whole history of the independence movement in South Africa has been that people have been prepared to make immense sacrifices. Look at the sacrifices that were made in Zimbabwe and in Kenya before independence was gained. Hon. Members should consider what was said in the House before Kenyan independence came and before Robert Mugabe became Prime Minister of Zimababwe. It needs to be remembered that there were great massacres. That same pattern of violence will occur again. It is tragic. None of us wants it.

What we want and have the right to demand are genuine negotiations. It is not for us to dictate the constitutional settlement that will have to be reached in South Africa. All we can say is that there must be an open agenda and that there cannot be consultation by hand-me-down. We cannot have the South African Government setting the agenda and choosing the people with whom they should negotiate. They must recognise that genuine negotiations mean an open agenda to be discussed with the true representatives of black opinion. That means recognising that a charismatic figure like Nelson Mandela is necessary to keep the unity of black Africa in any negotiations in which compromise is to be struck.

Looking back over the history of Kenya, how much easier it was for the compromises to be achieved because there was an outstanding leader, Jomo Kenyatta. The same can be said of many other African countries as they went from a period of armed struggle and violence towards the transition to independence and democracy. It may be different democracy from what we have here. I should like to see much better democracy. But let us remember that little Botswana, which was taken out by the South Africans, is one of the best representatives of democracy. [Interruption.] Conservative Members should look back at what they said would be the fate of Kenya. They should remind themselves that Kenya, which is a one-party state, nevertheless has a stable Government who rule, broadly speaking, in the interests of most of its citizens.

I say finally to the Prime Minister that there is not much time. The right hon. Lady thinks somehow that it does not matter if she is the only one who is left out, but it does matter. There are one or two countries — Nigeria is certainly one — which are not enthusiastic about continued membership of the Commonwealth and might like to have an excuse to leave the Commonwealth on an emotive issue. We ought not to give them the opportunity.

Furthermore, even if the Commonwealth staggers through, and the Prime Minister, kicking and screaming, struggling to the last comma, eventually concedes and we cross the threshold of economic sanctions, great damage will have been done to our standing. We may be the 19th industrial nation in the world, but we still have moral values and a commitment to democracy that needs to be heard. Many Commonwealth countries want to hear that voice, and they want to hear it from the Prime Minister before it is too late.

4.59 pm
Mr. Francis Pym (Cambridge, South-East)

There is not the slightest doubt from the speeches that we have heard so far that the House appreciates the gravity of the issue. I see two aspects to that. The first is related to the lives of the people in South Africa, the hardships that many of them know, the privileges enjoyed by some, and the aspirations of all. It is the people who are suffering. The second aspect is the perception of South Africa by the rest of the world. The disquiet that has long existed has grown over the years to a detestation of that regime. It has reached the point where there is almost a universal feeling that it is no longer adequate to be a spectator and wring our hands. Very few of us find it acceptable to do nothing. That international reality is clearly of the utmost significance.

We must also understand something of the history of the issue. The issue is more complex than the language that we use can express. The racial conflict in South Africa— and that is what it is—has deep roots. The present generation are the innocent inheritor and victim of events of long ago for which they bear no responsibility. I have no doubt that there was some kind of discrimination in the days of the great leaders such as Smuts and others. However, they were inspired by their vision of a promising future for their rich country that benefited all races and the whole population. Discrimination was no part of their outlook. Only in the past 30 years has discrimination become the basis of policy.

I would like to remind the House of the words of my noble Friend the Earl of Stockton when he was a Prime Minister. In a debate in the House on 22 March 1961, when the House was debating South Africa leaving the Commonwealth as a result of its vote to become a republic, the then Prime Minister, my noble Friend, said: the Prime Minister of South Africa, with an honesty which one must recognise"— and here my noble Friend was referring to the Commonwealth Heads of Government conference that he had just attended— made it abundantly clear beyond all doubt that he would not think it right to relax in any form the extreme rigidity of his dogma, either now or in the future. And it is a dogma. To us it is strange, but it is a dogma which is held with all the force of one of those old dogmas which men fought and struggled for in the past." —[Official Report, 22 March 1961; Vol. 637, c. 445] That dogma has been pursued ruthlessly ever since, to the point where millions in South Africa, who suffer under it, can take it no longer. They are sending out a cry for help, as would any drowning man. The most valid and authentic expression of the present position is the report of the Eminent Persons Group with its compelling opening sentence and its conclusions.

The meaning of the report is clear. All endeavours to influence South Africa in its internal policy have so far failed, and evidently there is no prospect of South Africa changing if left to its own devices except in so far as internal violence might force that. However, no one would wish that course to be pursued. My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs referred to some changes in his speech. However, I believe that the drift of those changes is that the South African Government are maintaining rigid control. The right hon. Member for Plymouth, Devonport (Dr. Owen) said that he had detected the possibility of hopeful changes. I hope that he is right.

A great many countries, including virtually all of the Commonwealth and the whole of Europe, have reached the stage where it is too uncomfortable to continue to do nothing. The feeling is that inaction in this case is immoral. I am especially glad to note that Her Majesty's Government share the desire for some form of action, that they accept the need for that and, in the amendment, they are asking the House to support a policy to work actively…for effective measures. I would hope and expect the House to support that.

However, there is an urgent need for action. The problems are self-evident and people's patience is running out. The period immediately ahead must be one of vigorous activity to carry the words in the amendment into practice. That brings me to the issue of sanctions. That issue is overloaded with emotion on both sides of the argument. We have already seen that expressed this afternoon. There is a place for emotion but policy, especially on such a delicate and difficult issue, must be based on rational argument.

I believe that the arguments against comprehensive sanctions or economic sanctions are intellectually strong and intellectually valid. The case against them is not proven by experience. However, it must be said that that experience is not encouraging. It is also true that sanctions would inflict hardship on individuals in South Africa and on the national economy with all the consequences that that would bring. But it must also be said that the opposite policy of not applying sanctions or doing nothing has not resulted in political progress, let alone power-sharing. Rather, the result has been to increase the laager approach and the use of emergency powers. That has also inflicted hardship on individuals just as the policy of sanctions would although they are different in detail.

It is a Catch 22 position. I believe that the Eminent Persons Group report shows the way. The hope was that the group would find a way forward, and that it would set in motion a peace process based on negotiations and a greater degree of mutual understanding within South Africa.

Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr. Pym

The hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I do not give way.

That is why the group came into existence after the Commonwealth Heads of Government conference. However, it has failed. The report clearly implies that, in its unanimous view, further measures are required. I would like to see my right hon. Friends and the British Government take a positive lead in identifying those measures. I do not want to see the Government being a reluctant co-operator. I want to see the Government set their objections aside. I did not feel that my right hon. and learned Friend