Libya

§ Mr. Speaker

Before we start on this important debate, I must tell the House that I have received an intimation from 46 Back Benchers that they hope to take part if they catch my eye. No fewer than 10 of them are Privy Councillors.

I propose to follow my normal practice of calling Privy Councillors alternately with Back Benchers. I hope that the House will think that that is fair.

I also propose to apply the 10-minute rule limit on speeches between 6 o'clock and 8 o'clock. I hope that those called before and after that time will bear that limit broadly in mind.

§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)

My statement yesterday explained the Government's decision to support the United States military action, taken in self-defence, against terrorist targets in Libya.

Of course, when we took our decison we were aware of the wider issues and of people's fears. Terrorism attacks free societies and plays on those fears. If those tactics succeed, terrorism saps the will of free peoples to resist.

We have heard some of those arguments in this country: "Don't associate ourselves with the United States," some say; "Don't support them in fighting back; we may expose ourselves to more attacks," say others.

Terrorism has to be defeated; it cannot be tolerated or side-stepped. When other ways and other methods have failed—I am the first to wish that they had succeeded—it is right that the terrorist should know that firm steps will be taken to deter him from attacking either other peoples or his own people who have taken refuge in countries that are free.

Before dealing with that central issue, and the evidence that we have of Libyan involvement, I wish to report to the House on the present position, as far as we know it. There have been reports of gunfire in Tripoli this lunchtime, but we have no further firm information.

The United States' action was conducted against five specific targets directly connected with terrorism. It will, of course, he for the United States Government to publish their assessment of the results. However, we now know that there were a number of civilian casualties, some of them children. It is reported that they included members of Colonel Gaddafi's own family.

The casualties are, of course, a matter of great sorrow. We also remember with sadness all those men, women and children who have lost their lives as a result of terrorist acts over the years—so many of them performed at the Libyan Government's behest.

We have no reports of British casualties as a result of the American action or of any subsequent incidents involving British citizens in Libya. I understand that telephone lines to Libya are open and that people in the United Kingdom have been able to contact their relatives there.

As I told the House yesterday, since May 1984 we have had to advise British citizens choosing to live and work in Libya that they do so on their own responsibility and at their own risk. Our consul in the British interests section 876 of the Italian embassy has been and will remain in close touch with representatives of the British community to advise them on the best course of action.

§ Mr. Eric S. Heffer (Liverpool, Walton)

The right hon. Lady referred to the killing of innocent children and then to terrorist attacks on innocent people in various parts of the world. I think that she and I may have been brought up in the same Christian tradition. Does she remember that two wrongs do not make a right?

§ The Prime Minister

Had the hon. Gentleman been listening, he would have realised that I was trying to tackle that argument in part, when I said that terrorism thrives on a free society. The terrorist uses the feelings in a free society to sap the will of civilisation to resist. If the terrorist succeeds, he has won and the whole of free society has lost.

We are most grateful for the work of the Italian authorities, as our protecting power, on behalf of the British community in Libya.

In this country, we have to be alert to the possibility of further terrorist attacks—so, too, do our British communities abroad. Our security precautions have been heightened, but it is, of course, the technique of the terrorist not just to choose obvious targets. Members of the public should therefore be ready to report to the police anything suspicious that attracts their attention. We have also taken steps to defend our interests overseas, seeking from foreign Governments enhanced protection for British embassies and communities.

The United Nations Security Council met twice yesterday and resumes today. With some significant exceptions, first international reactions have been critical, even to this carefully limited use of force in self-defence, but I believe that we can be pretty certain that some of the routine denunciations conceal a rather different view in reality.

Concern has been expressed about the effects of this event on relations between East and West. The United States informed the Soviet Union that it had conclusive evidence of Libyan involvement in terrorist activities, including the Berlin bomb, that limited military action was being taken and that it was in no way directed against the Soviet Union.

We now hear that Mr. Shevardnadze has postponed his meeting with Mr. Shultz planned for next month. I must say that that looks to me rather like a ritual gesture. If the Soviet Union is really interested in arms control it will resume senior ministerial contacts before long.

Right hon. and hon. Members have asked me about the evidence that the Libyan Government are involved in terrorist attacks against the United States and other Western countries. Much of this derives, of course, from secret intelligence. As I explained to the House yesterday, it is necessary to be extremely careful about publishing detailed material of this kind. To do so can jeopardise sources on which we continue to rely for timely and vital information.

I can, however, assure the House that the Government are satisfied from the evidence that Libya bears a wide and heavy responsibility for acts of terrorism. For example, there is evidence showing that, on 25 March, a week before the recent Berlin bombing, instructions were sent from Tripoli to the Libyan people's bureau in East Berlin to conduct a terrorist attack against the Americans. On 4 877 April the Libyan people's bureau alerted Tripoli that the attack would be carried out the following morning. On 5 April the bureau reported to Tripoli that the operation had been carried out successfully. As the House will recall, the bomb which killed two people and injured 230 had exploded in the early hours of that same morning.

This country too is among the many that have suffered from Libyan terrorism. We shall not forget the tragic murder of WPC Fletcher by shots fired from the Libyan people's bureau in London just two years ago tomorrow. It is also beyond doubt that Libya provides the Provisional IRA with money and weapons. The major find of arms in Sligo and Roscommon in the Irish Republic on 26 January, the largest ever on the island, included rifles and ammunition from Libya.

There is recent evidence of Libyan support for terrorism in a number of other countries. For instance, only three weeks ago intelligence uncovered a plot to attack with a bomb civilians queueing for visas at the American embassy in Paris. It was foiled and many lives must have been saved. France subsequently expelled two members of the Libyan people's bureau in Paris for their involvement.

§ Sir John Biggs-Davison (Epping Forest)

My right hon. Friend mentioned the considerable arms find by the Garda in County Sligo. Does she recall that they also unearthed a very large supply of small arms ammunition in boxes with Libyan army markings?

§ The Prime Minister

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I do recall that piece of evidence.

On 6 April an attempt to attack the United States embassy in Beirut, which we know to have been undertaken on Libyan Government instructions, failed when the rocket exploded on launch.

It is equally clear that Libya was planning yet more attacks. The Americans have evidence that United States citizens are being followed and American embassies watched by Libyan intelligence agents in a number of countries across the world. In Africa alone, there is intelligence of Libyan preparations for attacks on American facilities in no fewer than 10 countries.

There is other specific evidence of Libyan involvement in past acts of terrorism, and in plans for future acts of terrorism, but I cannot give details because that would endanger lives and make it more difficult to apprehend the terrorists. We also have evidence that the Libyans sometimes chose to operate by using other middle east terrorist groups.

But we need not rely on intelligence alone because Colonel Gaddafi openly speaks of his objectives. I shall give just one instance. In a speech at the Wheelus base in Libya in June 1984, he said: We are capable of exporting terrorism to the heart of America. We are also capable of physical liquidation and destruction and arson inside America. There are many other examples.

§ Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West)

I am grateful to the. Prime Minister for giving way. Why is she prepared to support United States aggression against Libya but is not prepared to support United States economic sanctions against Libya?

§ The Prime Minister

If the hon. Gentleman will contain himself in patience, I shall come to that.

878 Yesterday, many hon. Members referred to the need to give priority to measures other than military, but the sad fact is that neither international condemnation nor peaceful pressure over the years has deterred Libya from promoting and carrying out acts of terrorism.

§ Mr. Robert N. Wareing (Liverpool, West Derby)

rose—

§ The Prime Minister

No, I must carry on at the moment. I am on a new point about non-military measures about which I have been asked, and I must proceed through this evidence carefully.

In 1981 the United States closed the Libyan people's bureau in Washington and took measures to limit trade with Libya. Later, in January this year, the United States Government announced a series of economic measures against Libya. They sought the support of other Western countries. We took the view, together with our European partners, that economic sanctions work only if every country applies them. Alas, that was not going to happen with Libya.

In April 1984 we took our own measures. We closed the Libyan people's bureau in London and broke diplomatic relations with Libya. We imposed a strict visa regime on Libyans coming to this country and we banned new contracts for the supply of defence equipment and we severely limited Export Credits Guarantee Department credit for other trade.

Over the years, there have been many international declarations against terrorism, for example, by the economic summit under British chairmanship in London in June 1984; by the European Council in Dublin in December 1984; and finally by the United Nations General Assembly in December 1985. All those meetings adopted resolutions condemning terrorism and calling for greater international co-operation against it.

Indeed, the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly unequivocally condemns as criminal all acts, methods and practices of terrorism. It calls upon all states, in accordance with international law, to refrain from organising, instigating, assisting or participating in terrorist acts in other States. After the Achille Lauro incident, the Security Council issued a statement condemning terrorism in all its forms everywhere.

But while resolutions and condemnation issued from those cities, in others more terrible events—bombings, hijackings and kidnappings—were happening or were being planned. They are still being planned.

It was against that remorseless background of terrorist atrocities, and against the background of the restrained peaceful response, that the case for military action under the inherent right of self-defence to deter planned Libyan terrorist attacks against American targets was raised.

President Reagan informed me last week that the United States intended to take such action. He sought our support. Under the consultation arrangements which have continued under successive Governments for over 30 years, he also sought our agreement to the use of United States aircraft based in this country. Hon. Members will know that our agreement was necessary.

In the exchanges which followed, I raised a number of questions and concerns. I concentrated on the principle of self-defence, recognised in article 51 of the United Nations charter, and the consequent need to limit the action and to relate the selection of targets clearly to terrorism.

879 There were of course risks in what was proposed. Many of them have been raised in the House and elsewhere since the action took place. I pondered them deeply with the Ministers most closely concerned, for decisions like this are never easy. We also considered the wider implications, including our relations with other countries, and we had to weigh the importance for this country's security of our Alliance with the United States and the American role in the defence of Europe.

As I told the House yesterday, I replied to the President that we would support action directed against specific Libyan targets demonstrably involved in the conduct and support of terrorist activities; further, that if the President concluded that it was necessary, we would agree to the deployment of United States aircraft from bases in the United Kingdom for that specific purpose.

§ Mr. Andrew Faulds (Warley, East)

Will the right hon. Lady give way?

§ The Prime Minister

No, Sir.

The President responded that the operation would be limited to clearly defined targets related to terrorism, and that every effort would be made to minimise collateral damage. He made it clear that, for the reasons I indicated yesterday, he regarded the use of F111 aircraft from bases in the United Kingdom as essential. There are, I understand, no other F111s stationed in Europe. Had we refused permission for the use of those aircraft, the United States operation would still have taken place; but more lives would probably have been lost, both on the ground and in the air.

It has been suggested that, as a result of further Libyan terrorism, the United States might feel constrained to act again. I earnestly hope that such a contingency will not arise. But in my exchanges with the President, I reserved the position of the United Kingdom on any question of further action which might be more general or less clearly directed against terrorism.

§ Mr. Faulds

Will the right hon. Lady give way?

§ The Prime Minister

No. This point is particularly important.

Moreover, it is clearly understood between President Reagan and myself that, if there were any question of using United States aircraft based in this country in a further action, that would be the subject of a new approach to the United Kingdom under the joint consultation arrangements.

Many hon. Members have questioned whether the United States action will be effective in stopping terrorism—

§ Mr. Faulds

Will the right hon. Lady give way on that point?

§ The Prime Minister

Many hon. Members—

§ Mr. Faulds

rose—

§ Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that he must resume his seat if the Prime Minister does not give way.

§ The Prime Minister

Many hon. Members have questioned whether the United States action will be effective in stopping terrorism or will instead have the effect of quickening the cycle of violence in the middle east.

880 Let us remember that the violence began long ago. It has already taken a great many lives. It has not been so much a cycle of violence as a one-sided campaign of killing and maiming by ruthless terrorists, many with close connections with Libya. The response of the countries whose citizens have been attacked has not so far stopped that campaign.

§ Mr. Wareing

Will the Prime Minister give way on that point?

§ The Prime Minister

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman later. Please may I continue with this point?

§ Mr. Faulds

Why not give way to me?

§ The Prime Minister

Indeed, one has to ask whether it has not been the failure to act in self-defence that has encouraged state-sponsored terrorism. Firm and decisive action may make those who continue to practise terrorism as a policy think again. I give way to the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Wareing).

§ Mr. Wareing

Would the Prime Minister agree that if her argument is correct we should all be feeling very much safer? Can she therefore explain why, for the first time since the early days of my election to the House, I was asked this morning—as all hon. Members have been asked—for my pass and my car was searched in order to ensure our safety? Am I to feel safe now as a result of this attack?

§ The Prime Minister

I would have hoped that the hon. Gentleman would see the wisdom of taking heightened precautions. It would have been folly not to do so.

It has also been suggested that the United States action will only build up Colonel Gaddafi's prestige and support in the Arab world. In the very short term, one must expect statements of support for Libya from other Arab countries—although one is entitled to ask how profound or durable that support will be. But moderate Arab Governments, indeed moderate Governments everywhere, have nothing to gain from seeing Colonel Gaddafi build up power and influence by persisting in policies of violence and terror.

Their interest, like ours, lies in seeing the problems of the middle east solved by peaceful negotiation, a negotiation whose chances of success will be much enhanced if terrorism can be defeated.

§ Mr. A. J. Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed)

rose—

§ The Prime Minister

I shall not give way now.

Let me emphasise one very important point. A peaceful settlement of the Arab-Israel question remains our policy and we shall continue to seek ways forward with moderate Arab Governments. Indeed, I shall be seeing King Hussein later this week to discuss this very matter.

§ Mr. Beith

To what extent does the Prime Minister think that Colonel Gaddafi's capacity to mount attacks of terrorism has been reduced by the measures taken by the United States?

§ The Prime Minister

I believe that his capacity and the will of the people to do so have been impaired by the actions that have taken place.

The United States is our greatest ally. It is the foundation of the Alliance which has preserved our security and peace for more than a generation. In defence of liberty, our liberty as well as its own, the United States 881 maintains in Western Europe 330,000 service men. That is more than the whole of Britain's regular forces. The United States gave us unstinting help when we needed it in the South Atlantic four years ago.

The growing threat of international terrorism is not directed solely at the United States. We in the United Kingdom have also long been in the front line. To overcome the threat is in the vital interests of all countries founded upon freedom and the rule of law.

Terrorism exploits the natural reluctance of a free society to defend itself, in the last resort, with arms. Terrorism thrives on appeasement. Of course we shall continue to make every effort to defeat it by political means. But in this case that was not enough. The time had come for action. The United States took it. Its decision was justified, and, as friends and allies, we support it.

§ Mr. Neil Kinnock (Islwyn)

This House is united and firm in its view that terrorism is evil and cowardly and a completely unjustified and unjustifiable way of advancing any cause, whether it be political, religious, or any other cause. [Interruption.] The question before the House today, therefore, is not one of competitive loathing for Mu'ammar Gaddafi or any other supporter and sponsor of terrorism. It is not a question of who hates terrorism the most. The real question is not how we describe terrorism but what we do about it.

Faced by the terrorist menace which has emanated from Libya and many other countries over past years we must answer the question, what is the effective response to be made to terrorism and terrorists? The effective response is what today's debate is and should be about, because it is the benchmark against which we have to judge the actions of the President of the United States and our own Prime Minister and because it is the only way to answer the question of where we and our allies, on both sides of the Atlantic, go from here. Therefore, we must judge the President and the Prime Minister on the effectiveness of the action which they have jointly taken.

The purpose of the bombing raid on Tripoli and Benghazi on Monday night was said by President Reagan to be to bring down the curtain on Gaddafi's reign of terror. I do not believe that anyone can seriously believe that that objective has been or will be achieved by bombing. The use of such force does not punish terrorism. The use of such force will not prevent terrorism. Indeed, the use of such force is much more likely to provoke and expand terrorism. In any case, the strategy of using military force for the purpose of teaching Gaddafi a lesson is fundamentally flawed for, as the Daily Telegraph said this morning, it presumes a degree of rationality in Tripoli about cause and effect, which is palpably lacking". There are some who would say that the evidence—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Cranley Onslow (Woking)

rose—

§ Mr. Speaker

Order. The Prime Minister was given a fair hearing. That is equally the right of the Leader of the Opposition.

§ Mr. Kinnock

It was clear from the earliest seconds of my speech what the tactic was to be and I know that you, Mr. Speaker, will be the judge about that.

Some will say that a great deal of weight must be given to the evidence which has been made available to the Prime Minister and to some others in this House.

§ Mr. Onslow

rose—

§ Mr. Kinnock

I shall give way in a moment.

It is important to give attention to the evidence, but I caution people who allow their judgment to turn solely on the evidence—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker

Order.

§ Mr. Kinnock

No one needs any convincing about the criminality of Gaddafi and those who put their whole weight of judgment on the evidence of a particular series of planned atrocities are in great danger of all falling into the trap of saying that where there is evidence the response must be bombing raids. There is great danger in that. If they do not say that when there is evidence available, they must tell us in which cases, in which countries and on what occasions the evidence is to be neglected and the bombing raids are not to take place. That response should not be undertaken.

§ Mr. Onslow

rose—

§ Mr. Kinnock

I shall give way in a moment.

The other consideration is that those who put their complete faith in the evidence as a justification for military strikes are saying that where there is such evidence the considerations of international law can be put aside. We do not accept that at home, we do not accept it abroad. That is not a point of nicety; it is fundamental to realism in the conduct of international relations and it is fundamental to our moral and material strength in international relations.

§ Mr. Onslow

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for belatedly giving way. I have no desire to destroy his speech. [Interruption.] I am simply anxious that he should not mislead the House. Earlier he quoted some words, attributing their implication to President Reagan. The House and the right hon. Gentleman may like to know what those words should have been. President Reagan said: I have no illusion that tonight's action will bring down the curtain on Gaddafi's regime, but this mission, violent as it was, can bring closer a safer and more secure world for decent men and women. The right hon. Gentleman must not mislead the House.

§ Mr. Kinnock

I know what the President said, I know what he implied, and I also heard the right hon. Lady—[Interruption.] I also heard the right hon. Lady yesterday say that this action was about turning the tide of terrorism. No one can be in any doubt that the whole proposition of the action, as given by the Governments and understood by the people, is that by such a bombing strike such damage can be inflicted on Gaddafi as to stop him engaging in terrorism. No one doubts that.

The response that President Reagan can count on is the very opposite to what he intended. Gaddafi is without doubt a malignancy. No one can doubt his involvement in financing and sponsoring terrorism throughout the world. However, as a consequence of the actions of the United 883 States in the past few days, Gaddafi has a degree of support even from moderate Arab states that have previously regarded him with unrestrained hostility.

By the same means and for the same reasons, the influence of the United States and of Great Britain has been diminished, and we have heard from our European and Commonwealth allies statements of condemnation that would have been unthinkable about our country a short time ago.

I suggest that reasons such as those explain why the strategy of using military force against terrorism has never been employed by British Governments that have had to deal with that evil epidemic in recent years. Out policy until now has been a national policy. It has been a restrained policy. It has been a thorough policy of diplomatic sanctions, tightened security, the best anti-terrorism forces in the world, a readiness to take action wherever terrorists are caught and cornered, and an uncompromising attitude that refuses to trade hostages or to make any concessions to terrorism.

That has been our policy, and that policy has always stopped short of responding to terrorism with the might of armed force, such as was involved in the American attack on Monday night. That has not been because we are supine or because we are passive. It has certainly not been because we have cringed before terrorism and it is certainly not because we have not been provoked. The sentencing of British subjects, the kidnapping of British citizens, the murdering on our own streets of a policewoman and of others—all obviously make our blood boil.

§ Mr. Tony Favell (Stockport)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

§ Mr. Kinnock

I will give way in a moment.

However, we have not struck back with bombers because, while we know that the first step may be relatively easy, all further steps into conflict and all further steps back from conflict produce impossible difficulties. That policy of rationality, restraint, and fierce antiterrorism is the right policy. It can be, and now should be, strengthened, especially in the case of Libya, which is known to he a haven for terrorists. We should and could have strong commercial and financial sanctions and I now believe that we have an unprecedented opportunity to make those effective against Mu'ammar Gaddafi.

I believe that we can take that opportunity, because Libya is a country 80 per cent. dependent for its resources, and 100 per cent. dependent under its leadership, on oil, and with oil prices plummeting Gaddafi will be looking for credits. Those credits can and must be denied him until such time as the pressure of commercial, economic, financial, diplomatic and political sanctions squeezes the very life out of the Gaddafi regime. That is the way to do it. [HON. MEMBERS:"Hear, hear."] That is the practical course. That is the effective course. That is the way to isolate Gaddafi. It is the best means of punishment and prevention of that evil. That is the way we should go from here.

The Prime Minister has declined economic sanctions in the past. Frankly, that reluctance to use economic sanctions is not becoming in a Government who on Monday were prepared to use this country as a base for bombers and to condone the use of those bombers.

Of course, the task of securing comprehensive economic and other sanctions has now been made much 884 more difficult by the decision of the Prime Minister to be a compliant accomplice rather than a candid ally of the United States President. The right hon. Lady has not shown solidarity with our ally; she has shown subservience to the United States President. She was, as the Financial Times pointed out this morning, wrong to give in to US pressure on this occasion. She was wrong—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker

Order. This is a very important debate and the whole House—[Interruption.] Order. The hon. Member for Ashfield (Mr. Haynes) is not even in the House.

§ Mr. Kinnock

The Prime Minister was wrong to believe that the F1l l s were necessary for the operation or capable of reducing the casualties. She was wrong to depart from the common sense and legality of the British policy against terrorism as her Government and other Governments have operated it. She was wrong to neglect the impact that this action and her complicity in it would have on opinion among moderate Arab leaders She was wrong to disregard the reservations of our European allies.

Whatever plaudits the right hon. Lady's deference to the President of the United States may bring her in America, they will not be echoed on this side of the Atlantic. In this continent—and especially in a generation older than mine—we know that the achievement and maintenance of liberty sometimes requires great sacrifice and death. But we also know that it is foolhardy to start something that by its very definition cannot be properly finished.

There cannot be any hon. Member—

§ Mr. Michael Heseltine (Henley)

rose—

§ Mr. Kinnock

There cannot be any hon. Member in this House, or anyone in the country, who does not understand the frustration and resentment of the American President and people at the goading and attacks of terrorists. All of us, if we are honest with ourselves, are completely familiar with the instinct of revenge. Every one of us knows that lust for reprisal that we feel when we hear of assassination and bombings and, still more, when we see the bodies of children and old people shattered as a consequence of terrorist atrocities. Every instinct rages against it.

§ Mr. Heseltine

rose—

§ Mr. Kinnock

But we know, too, that the world simply cannot be run on the basis of such instincts. We know that an international strategy cannot be built on such instincts, and, much as we comprehend the sense of outrage, we cannot support the calculated reprisals that arise from that outrage.

§ Mr. Heseltine

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House any reason to suppose that there is an historic precedent for the belief that economic sanctions would work, or that they would achieve the reductions in terrorism of which Mr. Gaddafi is so patently guilty?

§ Mr. Kinnock

I need not persuade President Reagan of that, for he is the most avid practitioner of economic sanctions against a series of Governments. I am sure that we could gain the ready acquiescence of the President to a comprehensive strategy of sanctions against Libya.

§ Mr. Heseltine

rose—

§ Mr. Favell

rose—

§ Mr. Kinnock

With reference to the right hon. Gentleman's precise point, as I deliberately said earlier, Libya, with its great dependence on oil, and only oil, as its source of revenue and as Gaddafi's base for power, is uniquely positioned for the implementation of comprehensive international sanctions.

§ Mr. Favell

rose—

§ Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member must sit down when the Leader of the Opposition fails to give way.

§ Mr. Kinnock

It is obvious that the case for sanctions goes way beyond the House and any affiliation that the Labour party may have. Yesterday, I listened to a most persuasive interview given by Sir Anthony Parsons, a former adviser to the Prime Minister, who recommended precisely that course of sanctions as the most directly appropriate to the present circumstances.

The right hon. Lady was wrong to give support for the actions of reprisal that arose from the instincts of rage and outrage of the American President. That is not merely our view; it is the view of international law. The Prime Minister gave us her interpretation of international law and of self-defence yesterday, and she repeated it today. We have listened and we are not convinced. Much as the Prime Minister clearly believes in her interpretation, she can find no recognised authority outside the immediate ranks of the Conservative party to support her view of international law.

In the past 24 hours, we have heard from scholars of international law, from the lawyers who plead in the international courts, from the specialist political analysts and from experienced diplomats who have dealt with quesions of international law throughout their professional lives. None of them upholds the right hon. Lady's view of international law.

There are, of course, people who now say that international law as it is presently conceived was intended for a different age and that the age of terrorism means that the law must be stretched to embrace new sets of circumstances. I counsel against that, not from any reluctance to act directly against terrorism, but simply because of the impracticality of hitting back at terrorism with military force and because of the inhumanity which results from killing and maiming the innocent neighbours of terrorists.

I am not alone in that view. At the beginning of this week, the Secretary of State for Defence told the listeners of Radio Clyde: My colleagues and I are very dubious as to whether a military strike is the best way of doing this. It is liable to hit the wrong people. It creates other tensions in the area. No one could have put it better than that.

We need only ask ourselves, "Where are the modern terrorists?" They are found in their hideaways in the farms, villages and tenements of Ireland, Beirut, the Punjab and even some of the cosiest suburbs of European cities. They are scattered throughout the people, and that is what makes the idea of retribution by mass military force so impractical and such a dangerous course for future action.

If we set our hand to a strategy of reprisals, it will provoke, not prevent, terrorism and any subsequent pause in such a strategy of reprisal would be seen as irresolution and weakness by the terrorists and would encourage them to commit further atrocities. If we pursued the strategy of reprisal, we should be caught in a trap of either doing too 886 much or never doing enough. We could never get such a strategy right. It is not a strategy; it is a snare. British Governments have long known that, and that is why they have avoided such snares.

I strongly urge the right hon. Lady to resume that course of common sense and legality. There is only one policy that she can effectively pursue now. She can return to our European allies and partners and urge them to adopt the comprehensive sanctions that are essential to the isolation of Gaddafi. I know that that is very difficult. It will be especially difficult because the Prime Minister has a Foreign Secretary who, at the same time as he was agreeing in The Hague on Monday a communiquÉ which urged "restraint on all sides", knew that the Americans had already unleashed their dogs of war. The reaction of allies such as Leo Tindemans, Bettino Craxi, the Germans and the French testifies to that difficulty. The fact that it will be difficult does not mean that it will be impossible.

The right hon. Lady can repair the damage which she has caused, and if she pursues that course of securing combined and co-ordinated sanctions she will have strong support. It is essential that she makes that change, for she has not been strong, she has been supine, in her support for the American President. She has not acted in the interests of Britain. She has caused us to be more isolated from our allies and she has damaged our long-standing and wise anti-terrorist policy. She has not defended British citizens; she has put them in greater jeopardy. That is why the Prime Minister's policy has been and will be rejected by the British people. They know that she can have neither justice nor effectiveness on her side. They know that her might is not right.

§ Mr. David Steel (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale)

No one can be in any doubt that the decision taken by the Prime Minister and her colleagues was very difficult. The argument that I wish to deploy is that, although it was very difficult, it was the wrong decision. In a sense, I am relieved that the briefings from the Cabinet meeting on Tuesday showed that there were senior Ministers who expressed doubts about the action that was taken and they included the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the chairman of the Conservative party and the Home Secretary.

The Leader of the Opposition quoted what the Secretary of State for Defence forecast with remarkable accuracy on his local radio station. Here I disagree with the Leader of the Opposition. The Foreign Secretary said that he did not know of the decision when he met his European colleagues. That in itself is a comment on the way in which the decision was taken, and it will leave the Foreign Secretary extremely exposed among our European allies when he meets them in the future.

In arguing that the decision was wrong, the easiest way to come to that conclusion is to draw up a balance sheet of the gains and losses which have been incurred as a result of the action taken. The first loss is that a great many people were, unhappily, killed and that the act of revenge was out of proportion to the terrorist acts from which the United States suffered. It is a great mistake for the Prime Minister to slide, in her natural and right condemnation of Libya, into the assumption that all of the terrorist acts somehow have been inspired by Libya. Unhappily, that is not the case. They have come from other countries, too.

It is doubtful whether the action taken was legal under article 51 of the United Nations Charter. I do not think that 887 there is much point in going on in a debate, but at best it is a narrow balance of argument. It is clear from the words used by the Prime Minister both yesterday and today that in giving her consent to the use of British bases she did not seek to limit the attack to military targets, but included the severe risks and results that we saw in the centre of Tripoli.

The second item on the debit side is, I believe, that the action has now exposed Britons both in Libya and Britain itself to further terrorist attacks. I think that the Prime Minister has misunderstood the nature of terrorism. Before you have a terrorist, you have to have a fanatic. In order to breed terrorism, you have to breed fanaticism. My great fear is that this action in the last 48 hours will breed more fanaticism, not just in Libya itself, but throughout the Middle East. That is a more accurate forecast.

§ Mr. Jim Spicer (Dorset, West)

With regard to breeding more terrorists, I wonder whether the right hon. Gentleman could comment on the American action the week before in the gulf of Sirte when they crossed that line. Does he believe that that would breed more terrorism? Would he like to comment at some point on the comments made by his right hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Devonport (Dr. Owen) who said that he would like to have seen British ships alongside the Americans, going across that line?

§ Mr. Steel

The hon. Member must not take out of context what my right hon. Friend has said. He has argued for the case to be taken to the United Nations and for collective action to be taken against Libya by the Western powers, and that is a view with which I agree. I shall return to the question of the gulf of Sirte in a moment.

The third item on the debit side is that we have angered our allies. This is a time when European unity is important. We have 11 fellow members of the European Community, and not one of them has supported the view that we have taken on this matter. Several of them are rather closer to the situation than we are.

I was at a meeting with the Italian Defence Minister, Mr. Spadolini, in Sicily when the fleet began the exercises which led to this attack. I know that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are aware that no one would doubt Mr. Spadolini's commitment to the NATO Alliance, but, as a result of the stationing of NATO bases on Sicily, and throughout the mainland of Italy, the mood in Italy is nervous. They, unlike us, are in line and within target range of Libyan missiles, so the weight of European opinion is important in this matter.

The fourth casualty in this exercise has been the postponement, rather than the cancellation, of the meeting between Mr. Shultz and Mr. Shevardnadze. The Soviet Union is wrong in asserting that this attack was part of a strategy to torpedo the Geneva talks. This has been an inadvertent casualty of the whole peace process, and I hope that it will be resumed as soon as possible, and that the Foreign Secretary will lend his weight to the resumption of these important talks.

The fifth casualty on the debit side is the effect that it has had—

§ Mr. Tony Marlow (Northampton, North)

rose—

§ Mr. Steel

No, I shall not give way.

The fifth casualty is the effect that it has had in boosting Colonel Gaddafi's position both internally and externally in the middle east. His 16–year-old reign in Libya has been 888 a catalogue of misdeeds and malevolence. He is detested, and rightly so, by Westerner, Arab and African alike. He has invaded Chad, and tried to overthrow the neighbouring Government in Tunisia. He has meddled in Syria and Algeria and sponsored numerous acts of hijacking and terrorism, including the attempt to murder some leaders in Egypt. In Britain we too have suffered with the incident in St. James's Square. Elsewhere in Europe, the terrorists that he has trained, sheltered and equipped have murdered Libyans in exile, and any foreigners who anger the colonel. The man is a menace, and is widely regarded as such. I fear that what this action has done is to boost his power, authority and status within his own country, and in the Arab world as a whole. All of this is on the debit side.

I come to the second point, which is the matter of the gulf of Sirte. These opinions that I give on Colonel gaddafi's status in the Arab world are not my own. During the Easter recess, I was in the Gulf States and every Government told me in relation to the action in the gulf of Sirte that surely we could have had more influence with the United States not to act unilaterally, that it would have the effect of boosting Colonel Gaddafi. That view must have been put to Vice-President Bush when he went round the same countries three days later. It appears that the United States has paid no attention to that particular argument.

When one looks at the fact that Jordan and Egypt are traditional friends, and have now joined in criticism of the action which we and the United States have taken, one must add all that together and then look at the credit side. The Prime Minister says that it will have helped to check terrorism. I am afraid that that must remain a hope, and not anything for which there is any evidence. As my hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith) said, I think that there is every reason to believe that, far from stopping terrorism, this particular action will have boosted terrorism from Libya and elsewhere.

§ Mr. Patrick Cormack (Staffordshire, South)

Does the right hon. Gentleman recollect that it is not so long ago that he advocated bombing a very much less aggressive leader? Does he not remember Liberal policy to bomb Zimbabwe?

§ Mr. Steel

The hon. Member's memory is faulty. Firstly, it was certainly not anything that I ever said and, secondly, the proposal was to damage the railway line carrying oil supplies across the desert.

The real argument which has been produced in favour of this action is that it has taught Colonel Gaddafi a lesson. That is undeniable. I believe the great powers, the great civilisations, do not enhance their reputation by giving vent to their frustrations in terrible acts of indiscriminate revenge, and that is how it is seen in the rest of the world.

There are three short lessons from this episode. Firstly, the United States Administration is right to complain of an inadequate European response to terrorism and to the acts of Libya. That is why I believe, and my party and our alliance believe, that the Government should take the evidence that they have both to the European Community and to the United Nations, and seek a collective response to Libya's actions. Europe should act more unitedly, both against terrorism, and I believe, in the longer run, on the wider issues of the Middle East problem, on which Europe 889 has done nothing since the days when Lord Carrington was chairman of the Council of Ministers. I think we ought to revise those initiatives.

The second lesson is that we ought to look at the arrangements for the use of American bases. The Attlee-Truman accord is very much out of date. It was never published, and it should now be revised, published and approved. If damage is not to be caused to the NATO Alliance, there must be no doubt as to the conditions under which American bases in this country are used. The Government made a severe error of judgment. I believe that the British people will share that view and that they would rather see a Government with a broader view of British interests in the world and a Government who will think that it is conceivable, occasionally, to say no to the occupant of the White House.

§ Mr. Edward Heath (Old Bexley and Sidcup)

The Prime Minister has emphasised that throughout the Government have had to make an assessment of the possibilities of dealing with terrorism through the United States action and, the consequences which would follow, not only for our own country, but for Europe and the western world. She has also emphasised the difficulty of making such an assessment. I think we all recognise that. That means that there is room for differences of assessment in this matter.

There are also lessons of history to be drawn upon. They came about some 30 years ago. For a few of us in this House the memories of what happened then have come back very vividly, when there was a dictator who was over-estimated in the Mediterranean area. One of my hon. Friends may say that the consequences which flowed from that arose because the action was not carried through to a logical conclusion, to which the answer is that it was not possible to carry it through to a logical conclusion.

The main question which faces us now is whether it is possible to carry this action through to a logical conclusion and what will be the consequences of so doing. That leaves still the whole question of the inflation of tension and the effect of bombing action on the Mediterranean and the middle east. After the earlier incident Nasser's influence was greatly increased. The trouble which he caused was extended on a much wider base than it had been previously. We saw that other countries in the middle east were forced to go along with him. We also saw that for 15 years our own interests suffered dramatically because of those affairs in the middle east. We should learn from those lessons when we are trying to make an assessment of the present situation.

§ Mr. Robert Adley (Christchurch)

Just in case anyone forgets, perhaps my right hon. Friend should remind many hon. Members who were not in the House then that it was the Americans who prevented us from doing what we were trying to do.

§ Mr. Heath

I was coming to a real difference in the situation, which was that President Eisenhower and the American Administration strongly took the view that such action was not justifiable under article 51 of the United Nations charter and did everything possible to prevent that action taking place. As a result, the United States was much more influential in the middle east and was much 890 more highly esteemed than at almost any time since. That was particularly the case because the action which we took was only a few days before the presidential election and it meant the United States taking a decision which many interpreted as being hostile to Israel. Therefore, that was a remarkable decision by President Eisenhower.

On the question of terrorism, I have no illusions whatever about Prsident Gaddafi and his involvement in terrorism, including the IRA. Like my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, I too have suffered from terrorism on two occasions. I realise all the implications of terrorism but the issue here is, what is the best way to deal with terrorism and how does one deal with it?

§ Mr. Marlow

I hope I am not anticipating what my right hon. Friend is about to say. If he had been Prime Minister and the President of the United States said that he would attack Libya anyway, and had my right hon. Friend been asked whether the United States could use British bases, what would he have said?

§ Mr. Heath

I shall come to that. There is another lesson of history, to which I wish to draw attention, which deals specifically with that point.

On involvement in terrorism, we must be aware that in many other countries, particularly in the middle east, Governments are actively involved in terrorism, and international terrorism at that. So we are faced with the further question: how are those countries to be dealt with if this is deemed to be an acceptable way of dealing with terrorism?

In 1956 there was only one international lawyer who believed that article 51 of the United Nations charter was the right way to deal with the matter. One Government adviser took the other view but all the rest of those engaged in international law were against it. I have heard of only one international lawyer today who believes that article 51 justifies United States action. Therefore, it can only be justified in some other way.

I do not believe that article 51, as drafted, was ever intended to deal with such situations. It was intended to be an approval of pre-emptive action when the attack on a nation was absolutely clear. It may be, as the Leader of the Opposition has said, that international law needs to be brought up to date to deal with terrorism. There is no doubt that international action needs to be brought up to date to deal with it. But that is a different question from arguing at this moment that article 51 is sufficient justification.

I come now to the point put by my hon. Friend, the Member for Northampton, North (Mr. Marlow). Let us not be under any misapprehension about the situation between this country and the United States. Of course, the United States has massive forces in Europe. So do the European countries themselves—in fact, proportionally more than the United States. The United States has forces in Europe because it has vital interests in Europe. It is in the vital interest of the United States not to allow the Soviet Union to overwhelm Europe. These are facts of life. Above all, foreign policy has to be realistic.

Of course, we owed a great deal to the United States during the war, but the rest of the world owed a great deal to Britain. For one single year we stood alone with the Commonwealth facing the dictator. If it had not been that we were able and prepared to do that, the United States would have been faced with a fascist dictatorship right across Europe. So let us accept that there is a proper basis for our relationship so far as Europe is concerned.

891 My hon. Friend asked me what my reply to the United States would have been. We had to deal with an equally difficult question during the Yom Kippur war in the middle east in 1973. We were asked for the use of bases, including those in Cyprus. The reply which my Government sent to the United States was no.

§ Mr. Churchill (Davyhulme)

Disgraceful.

§ Mr. Heath

My hon. Friend may shout, "Disgraceful", but that was done in the reality of British interests, which is what the Prime Minister and the Cabinet are concerned with. My hon. Friend's grandfather was quoted in the House yesterday, again on what happened 30 years ago. What his grandfather said was, "I would never have been so bold to do it, but on the other hand neither would I have been so foolish".

§ Mr. Churchill

As I was present when the statement to which my right hon. Friend refers was made, may I point out that my grandfather said, "I do not know that I would have initiated it. I certainly would not have dared to stop halfway."

§ Mr. Heath

I was quoting what my hon. Friend's grandfather said to me at dinner at the corner table of the Dining Room.

I return to the question of the British-American relationship. We were respected because we said to the United States what we believed to be right: that we should not become involved on one side in the Yom Kippur war. The United States respected us for doing so. President Nixon and Henry Kissinger respected us because they knew that we were looking after what we believed to be the British national interest. We were not prepared to alienate the middle east or the Arab world. We certainly did not wish to see Israel overrun, but we were determined to defend British interests. That was why our oil supplies were continued and why we were able to keep the flow of oil going to our European allies, even though that was not publicised at the time.

When one tries to learn the lessons, and estimate the influence which such events can have on the Arab world and on the people involved, such as President Nasser then, I cannot come to the conclusion that this action by the United States will destroy terrorism, nor do I believe that bombing cities is the right way to attempt to destroy terrorism. It is essential that we use all our resources—the intelligence services have been mentioned and the forces of law and order exist—in dealing with terrorism. In some respects countries in Europe have been successful in this. Alas, we have not been successful in Northern Ireland and it is not because we do not have forces there, because we have. It has never been suggested that we should bomb IRA camps on the west coast of Ireland. The real point is how we overcome terrorism by the use of our intelligence system, and our forces of law and order. It is that upon which we should concentrate. For us or for the United States to bomb cities cannot be justified.

§ Sir Eldon Griffiths (Bury St. Edmunds)

This morning I had an opportunity to go over the instructions to the American aircrews in my constituency. They did not bomb cities, they bombed precise military targets. They accepted considerable risks and did not unleash their bombs precisely because they were instructed not to bomb cities.

§ Mr. Heath

My hon. Friend cannot deny that civilian casualties occurred. Is my hon. Friend trying to tell me that the five embassies and the apartment buildings that were hit and the children who were killed were not affected by this? Of course they were. In making an assessment one has to recognise that a military operation in circumstances like this cannot be carried out without an enormous risk of civilian casualties.

§ Several Hon. Members

rose—

§ Mr. Heath

I have given way and cannot give way any more.

This is part of the assessment one has to make and it must be foremost in one's mind when carrying out action of this kind.

My last point is about the escalation of military action. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister says that she has not committed herself but has kept the option open, but we must consider seriously whether we want to become still more involved in future activities of this kind. We must accept that the past has happened and that is that, whether we thought it was right or not. We have to address ourselves to the future. Are we prepared to see more actions of this kind by the United States air force against Libya? We should not be prepared to accept that.

We need to go to the root of the middle east problem, which is the future of the Palestinians and the relationship between Israel and the Arab world. It is neglect of that above everything else that is leading to the tension in the middle east. Unfortunately, initiatives taken by President Carter have not been carried on by the present Administration, which has been one-sided in its attitude to the middle east. I hope my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister did not intend to imply that all the troubles come from the Arab world. What about the Israeli invasion of the Lebanon? No one has been able to justify that. The Palestinians and the relationship between Israel and the Arab world form the crux of the matter, and a determined attempt is required if we are to reach a solution to the middle east problem. We should not become further involved in the bombing of Libya.

§ Dr. David Owen (Plymouth, Devonport)

The right hon. Gentleman has spoken about the decision he took in 1973 and asks us to look to the future. Given his experience of joint decision-making about the use of bases, does he believe that a British Prime Minister has the right to question very carefully the detail of any action that is taking place, and can look at the targeting strategy arising out of any request by the United States to use air bases in Britain?

§ Mr. Heath

Under the agreement I am sure that is the case. On television yesterday I heard the United States Secretary of Defence say that the British asked a lot of questions. Of course that right exists. I have also said that not only is there a right of veto, but that it has been used and accepted by the United States, because it recognised that we were not prepared to go along with a certain policy. That policy would have required us to take one side in the Yom Kippur war and we were determined, with the support of Parliament, not to go on either side in that war. My answer contains more than the right hon. Gentleman asked for. The right of veto exists.

§ Mr. William Cash (Stafford)

Does my right hon. Friend not accept that the Yom Kippur war was between 893 Israel and Egypt and that the United States was also involved? This is a completely different situation between America and Libya and we are involved as allies of America.

§ Mr. Heath

I cannot agree with my hon. Friend. His point in no way affects the Truman-Churchill agreement or the power of a British Prime Minister to say no, and for that to be accepted by the United States. In that respect, it is not a different situation. Some people would say that my hon. Friend is in the wrong and that this situation is not one for NATO. There is a powerful argument that all of these matters are limited to NATO and that this situation in Libya is not a matter for NATO. My hon. Friend ought to be careful on that point as well.

I should like to return to the crucial point about what will happen if this escalates. To judge from reports, it may be that Colonel Gaddafi is no longer alive. None of us knows. If Monday's action has not stopped the development of terrorism, what is the next stage? It should not be escalated into further conflict in the middle east. We should attempt to deal with terrorism in the basic way, the way in which we have always had to deal with it, through our intelligence services and our forces of law and order. We should also deal with the basic problem that is the cause of terrorism in so many countries—the conflict between Israel and the Arab world.