HC Deb 08 February 1956 vol 548 cc1681-4
Mr. J. Nixon Browne

I beg to move, in page 9. line 32, to leave out "and" and to insert "equipment, containers or."

With your approval, Mr. Speaker, and for the convenience of the House, perhaps we might at the same time deal with the next four Amendments.

In Committee, the hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross) drew attention to the fact that there was reference to equipment in one subsection, but not the other subsections. We have examined the matter carefully, and this and the subsequent Amendments insert as well as "equipment" the word "containers." The addition of" containers" permits the exercise of control over cans for tinned foods, which might otherwise have been excluded.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: In page 9, line 39, leave out "and" and insert "containers or."

In line 46, after "equipment," insert "containers."

In page 10, line I, after "equipment," insert "containers."

In line 7, leave out "and" and insert "equipment, containers or"—[Mr. J. N. Browne.]

3.45 p.m.

The Lord Advocate (Mr. W. R. Milligan)

I beg to move, in page 11, line 5, at the end to insert: accommodation in home-going ships, and in respect of. In Committee, the question arose whether ships ought to be covered, and as a result certain Amendments are now brought forward. With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House, I suggest that we might consider at the same time the Amendments to Clause 28, in page 27, lines 7 and 8, to Clause 37, in page 8, line 26 and to Clause 58, in page 40, line 38.

The question raised was whether it would not be desirable for ships to be covered by the Bill and to rank in appropriate places along with premises. I undertook to consider introducing Amendments later. The Amendment that I have moved gives effect to the point in this Clause. The later Amendments to which I have referred deal with sampling, power of entry, and definition.

Mr. Speaker

I see no objection to the Amendments being considered together, but I hope that the right hon. and learned Gentleman will assist me when moving the subsequent Amendments to which he has alluded by telling me and the House that they are consequential.

Mr. William Ross (Kilmarnock)

We ought to have from the Lord Advocate a definition of the scope of the term "home-going ship." In the discussion in Committee with reference to this Clause, we did not speak about all ships but specified certain types which we thought it right that the regulations should cover. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman can give us a definition of "home-growing ships"—I mean "home-going ships"; we shall be pleased to have "homegrown" ships provided that they come from the Clyde—we may be able to determine whether the Amendments effectively meet the point raised.

Captain J. A. L. Duncan (South Angus)

Can my right hon. and learned Friend say what consultation he had, before tabling the Amendments, with the shipping interests on the one hand and the Board of Trade on the other? I am anxious that the new law should have the good will of the shipping interests and to see that there is no duplication between the Board of Trade's administration of mercantile marine laws and the provisions of this Bill which apply to shipping.

I shall be satisfied if I can be assured that there is no duplication between the administration of the Board of Trade laws and the new Bill and that the shipping interests have been consulted and have agreed to these provisions, which are not in the English Bill.

Mr. G. M. Thomson (Dundee, East)

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross), I should like further clarification on what is meant by home-going ships. I see that in a further Amendment, in page 40, a definition is given indicating that the phrase shall be applied to ships calling between places in Scotland. Could that not be extended to include one of the most popular excursion ships running between the West of Scotland and the Isle of Man? If that would involve difficulties in later parts of the Bill, could there be consultations to see whether ships running between Stranraer and Larne could not be brought within the scope of the Bill?

Mr. Hector Hughes (Aberdeen, North)

I should like to support the observations of my hon. Friends. The words "home-going ships" seem to be a roundabout way of expressing of what is intended. I suggest that it might be better to substitute the simple phrase, "coastal ships."

The Lord Advocate

The hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross) asked me to clarify the expression "home-going shipping." It might be out of order to do so—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—but if it is not, then the hon. Member will find it in an Amendment to Clause 58.

Mr. Speaker

It is not out of order. We are having a discussion on all the Amendments.

The Lord Advocate

I would direct the hon. Member's attention to the Amendment in page 40, line 38, at the end to insert: 'home-going ship' means a ship plying in inland waters, or a ship engaged in coastal passenger services, and for the purposes of this definition 'coastal passenger service' means a passenger service or excursion between places in Scotland which does not involve calling at any place outside Scotland. That is a proposed Amendment to Clause 58, the interpretation Clause.

In the course of the Committee stage, the hon. Member for Kilmarnock drew attention particularly to excursions and the like. I do not say that the words of the Amendment are entirely taken out of the speech which he made on that occasion, but they are certainly designed to meet the very situation which he visualised. He referred to excursions to Rothesay and the like.

Perhaps I may also deal with the suggestion of the hon. Member for Dundee, East (Mr. G. M. Thomson), about the Isle of Man. It would be difficult in this purely Scottish Measure, as it were, to cross the Border. We have done a good deal for the ordinary coastal traffic around the coast of Scotland and I do not think that we ought to run into further difficulties of crossing the Border, even though it be only crossing the sea.

The hon. and learned Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hector Hughes) also referred to a possibly better definition of coastal shipping. I think that, in fact, the definition proposed in page 40, line 38, is more thorough.

My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for South Angus (Captain Duncan) inquired whether consultations had been held. The House will remember that in Committee I stated that active consultations with the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation had taken place and it was made abundantly clear at that time that it was proposed that we should include ships. No representations have been made against that and my hon. and gallant Friend can rest assured that there have been no unsatisfactory repercussions from the trade.

Mr. Steele

Most of the discussion so far has been about the coastal passenger services plying between Stranraer and the Isle of Man. The most important inland waterway in Scotland is Loch Lomond, and I should like to know whether that is included in the Amendment.

The Lord Advocate

Yes, Sir.

Amendment agreed to.