PRIME MINISTER'S STATEMENT.

§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Chamberlain)

It has been my lot to listen to more than one speech by a Minister who came to this House to explain the reasons why he had felt it necessary to resign his office in the Government. I have never been able to listen to such speeches without emotion. When a man gives up, as my right hon. Friend has so eloquently described, a great position, and association with friends in the pursuit of work in which he takes a pride and interest, and gives up these things for conscience' sake, everybody must listen to him with respect. One must feel, too, sympathy for a man struggling to explain the reasons which have separated him from his colleagues conscious that among them at any rate, he has been in a minority. But 41 I am sure my right hon. Friend will not think me discourteous if this afternoon I make no attempt to answer him or to defend myself against the strictures which he has made upon the policy which the Government have been pursuing. It is not that I have anything to withdraw or to regret, but that in the course of this Debate there will be, no doubt, other criticisms which can be answered before the Debate closes, along with those of my right hon. Friend, and that I desire to open the discussion with the speech that I would have made if my right hon. Friend had not resigned, in order that I may try and give the House the background, as we see it, for the events that have taken place and for the decisions that have been taken.

When the House met last Wednesday, we were all under the shadow of a great and imminent menace. War, in a form more stark and terrible than ever before, seemed to be staring us in the face. Before I sat down, a message had come which gave us new hope that peace might yet be saved, and to-day, only a few days after, we all meet in joy and thankfulness that the prayers of millions have been answered, and a cloud of anxiety has been lifted from our hearts. Upon the Members of the Cabinet the strain of the responsibility of these last few weeks has been almost overwhelming. Some of us, I have no doubt, will carry the mark of it for the rest of our days. Necessarily, the weight fell heavier upon some shoulders than others. While all bore their part, I would like here and now to pay an especial tribute of gratitude and praise to the man upon whom fell the first brunt of those decisions which had to be taken day by day, almost hour by hour. The calmness, patience, and wisdom of the Foreign Secretary, and his lofty conception of his duty, not only to this country but to all humanity, were an example to us all, and sustained us all through the trials through which we have been passing.

Before I come to describe the Agreement which was signed at Munich in the small hours of Friday morning last, I would like to remind the House of two things which I think it is very essential not to forget when those terms are being considered. The first is this: We did not go there to decide whether the predominantly German areas in the Sudetenland should be passed over 42 to the German Reich. That had been decided already. Czechoslovakia had accepted the Anglo-French proposals. What we had to consider was the method, the conditions and the time of the transfer of the territory. The second point to remember is that time was one of the essential factors. All the elements were present on the spot for the outbreak of a conflict which might have precipitated the catastrophe. We had populations inflamed to a high degree; we had extremists on both sides ready to work up and provoke incidents; we had considerable quantities of arms which were by no means confined to regularly organised forces. Therefore, it was essential that we should quickly reach a conclusion, so that this painful and difficult operation of transfer might be carried out at the earliest possible moment and concluded as soon as was consistent with orderly procedure, in order that we might avoid the possibility of something that might have rendered all our attempts at peaceful solution useless.

The House will remember that when I last addressed them I gave them some account of the Godesberg Memorandum, with the terms of which I think they are familiar. They will recollect also that I myself at Godesberg expressed frankly my view that the terms were such as were likely to shock public opinion generaly in the world and to bring their prompt rejection by the Czechoslovak Government. Those views were confirmed by the results, and the immediate and unqualified rejection of that Memorandum by the Czechoslovak Government was communicated to us at once by them. What I think the House will desire to take into consideration first, this afternoon, is what is the difference between those unacceptable terms and the terms which were included in the Agreement signed at Munich, because on the difference between those two documents will depend the judgment as to whether we were successful in what we set out to do, namely, to find an orderly instead of a violent method of carrying out an agreed decision.

I say, first of all, that the Godesberg Memorandum, although it was cast in the form of proposals, was in fact an ultimatum, with a time limit of six days. On the other hand, the Munich Agreement reverts to the Anglo-French plan, the plan referred to in the Preamble, though not in express terms, and it lays down 43 the conditions for the application, on the responsibility of the four Powers and under international supervision, of the main principle of that Memorandum. Again, under the Munich Agreement evacuation of the territory which is to be occupied by German military forces and its occupation by those forces is to be carried out in five clearly defined stages between 1st October and 10th October, instead of having to be completed in one operation by 1st October. Thirdly, the line up to which German troops will enter into occupation is no longer the line as laid down in the map which was attached to the Godesberg Memorandum. It is a line which is to be fixed by an International Commission. On that Commission both Germany and Czechoslovakia are represented. I take the fourth point. Under the Godesberg Memorandum the areas on the Czech side of this German line laid down in the map which were to be submitted to a plebiscite were laid down on that map by Germany, whereas those on the German side of the line were left undefined. Under the Munich Agreement all plebiscite areas are to be defined by the International Commission. The criterion is to be the predominantly German character of the area, the interpretation of that phrase being left to the Commission. I am bound to say that the German line, the line laid down in the map, did take in a number of areas which could not be called predominantly German in character.

Then, Sir, it will be remembered that, according to the Godesberg Memorandum, the occupation of plebiscite areas by German and Czech troops respectively was to be up to the time of the plebiscite. They were then to be withdrawn while the plebiscite was being held. Under the Munich Agreement these plebiscite areas are to be occupied at once by an international force. The Godesberg Memorandum did not indicate on what kind of areas the vote would be based. Accordingly, there were fears entertained on the side of the Czechs that large areas might be selected, which would operate to the disadvantage of the Czechoslovaks. In the Munich arrangement it is stated that the plebiscite is to be based on the conditions of the Saar plebiscite, and that indicates that the vote is to be taken by small administrative areas. Under the Munich arrangement the Czech Govern- 44 ment, while it is bound to carry out the evacuation of the territories without damaging existing installations, is not placed under the objectionable conditions of the appendix to the Godesberg Memorandum, to which much exception was taken, in that it was provided that no foodstuffs, cattle or raw material were to be removed. Under the Godesberg Memorandum the detailed arrangements for the evacuation were to be settled by Germans and Czechs alone, and I think there were many who thought that such an arrangement did not give the Czechs much chance of making their voices heard. Well, Sir, under the Munich Agreement the conditions of evacuation are to be laid down in detail by the International Commission.

Again, the Munich arrangement includes certain very valuable provisions which found no place at all in the Godesberg Memorandum, such as the Article regarding the right of option: that is option to leave the territory and pass into Czech territory, provisions for facilitating the transfer of populations, the supplementary declaration which provides that all other questions arising out of the transfer of territory are to be referred to the International Commission, and, finally, the one which gives the Czechs the period of four weeks for the release of the Sudeten Germans from the army and the police, and for the release of Sudeten German political prisoners instead of demanding that those things should be done by 1st October——

§ Miss Wilkinson

What about the kidnapped Czechs?

§ The Prime Minister

The joint guarantee, which is given under the Munich Agreement to the Czechoslovak State by the Governments of United Kingdom and France against unprovoked aggressions upon their boundaries, gives to the Czechs an essential counterpart which was not to be found in the Godesberg Memorandum, and it will not be unnoted that Germany will also undertake to give a guarantee on the question of Polish and Hungarian minorities being settled. Finally, there is a declaration by the Four Powers that if the problems of the Polish and Hungarian minorities in Czechoslovakia are not settled within three months by agreement between the respective Governments, another meeting 45 of the Four Powers will be held to consider them—[Interruption]. I think that every fair-minded, every serious-minded man who takes into consideration the modifications which I have described—modifications of the Memorandum—must agree that they are of very considerable extent and that they are all in the same direction. To those who dislike an ultimatum, but who were anxious for a reasonable and orderly procedure, everyone of those modifications is a step in the right direction. It is no longer an ultimatum, but it is a method which is carried out largely under the supervision of an international body.

Before giving a verdict upon this arrangement, we should do well to avoid describing it as a personal or a national triumph for anyone. The real triumph is that it has shown that representatives of four great Powers can find it possible to agree on a way of carrying out a difficult and delicate operation by discussion instead of by force of arms, and thereby they have averted a catastrophe which would have ended civilisation as we have known it. The relief that our escape from this great peril of war has, I think, everywhere been mingled in this country with a profound feeling of sympathy—[HON. MEMBERS: "Shame."] I have nothing to be ashamed of. Let those who have, hang their heads. We must feel profound sympathy for a small and gallant nation in the hour of their national grief and loss.

§ Mr. Bellenger

It is an insult to say it.

§ The Prime Minister

I say in the name of this House and of the people of this country that Czechoslovakia has earned our admiration and respect for her restraint, for her dignity, for her magnificent discipline in face of such a trial as few nations have ever been called upon to meet. General Syrovy said the other night in his broadcast: The Government could have decided to stand up against overpowering forces, but it might have meant the death of millions. The army, whose courage no man has ever questioned, has obeyed the order of their President, as they would equally have obeyed him if he had told them to march into the trenches. It is my hope, and my belief, that under the new system of guarantees, the new Czechoslovakia will find a greater security than she has ever enjoyed in the past. We must 46 recognise that she has been put in a position where she has got to reconstruct her whole economy, and that in doing that she must encounter difficulties, which it would be practically impossible for her to solve alone. We have received from the Czechoslovak Government, through their Minister in London, an appeal to help them to raise a loan of £30,000,000 by a British Government guarantee. I believe that the House will feel with the Government that that is an appeal which should meet with a sympathetic and even a generous response.

So far as we have been able to ascertain, the Czechoslovak Government has not as yet addressed any similar request to any other Government. It is evident that the terms and conditions of a guaranteed loan and the question of what Governments would participate in it, may raise matters which could not be decided immediately; but evidently this is one of those cases where the old proverb applies, that "He who gives quickly gives twice." [HON. MEMBERS: "Takes twice."] Would hon. Members opposite kindly allow me to continue this rather important part of my statement without those continual interruptions, which distract attention and make it difficult for the House to take in what I am saying? His Majesty's Government are informing the Czechoslovak Government that we are prepared immediately to arrange for an advance of £10,000,000, which would be at that Government's disposal for their urgent needs. How this advance will be related to the final figure which may be decided upon hereafter is for the future. Manifestly, all of this depends upon many factors which cannot now be determined. The precise character of the problem will want expert examination, in which we shall, if desired, be very willing to be associated, and during the coming weeks the resulting situation and its needs can be more fully explored.

What we feel to be required and justified now is that the action I have mentioned should be taken without any delay, first, to assist the Czechoslovak State in what must be the crisis of its difficulties. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, on behalf of the Government, has addressed a letter to the Bank of England requesting the Bank to provide the necessary credit of £10,000,000 sterling, and when the House resumes its sittings in November Parliament will be asked to pass the 47 necessary legislation to reimburse the Bank from the Exchequer.

I pass from that subject, and I would like to say a few words in respect of the various other participants, besides ourselves, in the Munich Agreement. After everything that has been said about the German Chancellor to-day and in the past, I do feel that the House ought to recognise the difficulty for a man in that position to take back such emphatic declarations as he had already made amidst the enthusiastic cheers of his supporters, and to recognise that in consenting, even though it were only at the last moment, to discuss with the representatives of other Powers those things which he had declared he had already decided once for all, was a real and a substantial contribution on his part. With regard to Signor Mussolini, his contribution was certainly notable and perhaps decisive. It was on his suggestion that the final stages of mobilisation were postponed for 24 hours to give us an opportunity of discussing the situation, and I wish to say that at the Conference itself both he and the Italian Foreign Secretary, Count Ciano, were most helpful in the discussions. It was they who, very early in the proceedings, produced the Memorandum which M. Daladier and I were able to accept as a basis of discussion. I think that Europe and the world have reason to be grateful to the head of the Italian Government for his work in contributing to a peaceful solution.

M. Daladier had in some respects the most difficult task of all four of us, because of the special relations uniting his country and Czechoslovakia, and I should like to say that his courage, his readiness to take responsibility, his pertinacity and his unfailing good humour were invaluable throughout the whole of our discussions. There is one other Power which was not represented at the Conference and which nevertheless we felt to be exercising a constantly increasing influence. I refer, of course, to the United States of America. Those messages of President Roosevelt, so firmly and yet so persuasively framed, showed how the voice of the most powerful nation in the world could make itself heard across 3,000 miles of ocean and sway the minds of men in Europe.

In my view the strongest force of all, one which grew and took fresh shapes 48 and forms every day was the force not of any one individual, but was that unmistakable sense of unanimity among the peoples of the world that war somehow must be averted. The peoples of the British Empire were at one with those of Germany, of France and of Italy, and their anxiety, their intense desire for peace, pervaded the whole atmosphere of the conference, and I believe that that, and not threats, made possible the concessions that were made. I know the House will want to hear what I am sure it does not doubt, that throughout these discussions the Dominions, the Governments of the Dominions, have been kept in the closest touch with the march of events by telegraph and by personal contact, and I would like to say how greatly I was encouraged on each of the journeys I made to Germany by the knowledge that I went with the good wishes of the Governments of the Dominions. They shared all our anxieties and all our hopes. They rejoiced with us that peace was preserved, and with us they look forward to further efforts to consolidate what has been done.

Ever since I assumed my present office my main purpose has been to work for the pacification of Europe, for the removal of those suspicions and those animosities which have so long poisoned the air. The path which leads to appeasement is long and bristles with obstacles. The question of Czechoslovakia is the latest and perhaps the most dangerous. Now that we have got past it, I feel that it may be possible to make further progress along the road to sanity.

My right hon. Friend has alluded in somewhat bitter terms to my conversation last Friday morning with Herr Hitler. I do not know why that conversation should give rise to suspicion, still less to criticism. I entered into no pact. I made no new commitments. There is no secret understanding. Our conversation was hostile to no other nation. The objects of that conversation, for which I asked, was to try to extend a little further the personal contact which I had established with Herr Hitler and which I believe to be essential in modern diplomacy. We had a friendly and entirely non-committal conversation, carried on, on my part, largely with a view to seeing whether there could be points in common between the head of a democratic Government and the ruler of a totalitarian 49 State. We see the result in the declaration which has been published, in which my right hon. Friend finds so much ground for suspicion. What does it say?

There are three paragraphs. The first says that we agree in recognising that the question of Anglo-German relations is of the first importance for the two countries and for Europe. Does anyone deny that? The second is an expression of opinion only. It says that: We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of the two peoples never to go to war with one another again. Once more I ask, does anyone doubt that that is the desire of the two peoples? What is the last paragraph? We are resolved that the method of consultation shall be the method adopted to deal with any other questions that may concern our two countries, and we are determined to continue our efforts to remove possible sources of difference and thus to contribute to assure the peace of Europe. Who will stand up and condemn that sentence?

I believe there are many who will feel with me that such a declaration, signed by the German Chancellor and myself, is something more than a pious expression of opinion. In our relations with other countries everything depends upon there being sincerity and good will on both sides. I believe that there is sincerity and good will on both sides in this declaration. That is why to me its significance goes far beyond its actual words. If there is one lesson which we should learn from the events of these last weeks it is this, that lasting peace is not to be obtained by sitting still and waiting for it to come. It requires active, positive efforts to achieve it. No doubt I shall have plenty of criticis who will say that I am guilty of facile optimism, and that I should disbelieve every word that is uttered by rulers of other great States in Europe. I am too much of a realist to believe that we are going to achieve our paradise in a day. We have only laid the foundations of peace. The superstructure is not even begun.

For a long period now we have been engaged in this country in a great programme of rearmament, which is daily increasing in pace and in volume. Let no one think that because we have signed this agreement between these four Powers 50 at Munich we can afford to relax our efforts in regard to that programme at this moment. Disarmament on the part of this country can never be unilateral again. We have tried that once, and we very nearly brought ourselves to disaster. If disarmament is to come it must come by steps, and it must come by the agreement and the active co-operation of other countries. Until we know that we have obtained that co-operation and until we have agreed upon the actual steps to be taken, we here must remain on guard.

When, only a little while ago, we had to call upon the people of this country to begin to take those steps which would be necesary if the emergency should come upon us, we saw the magnificent spirit that was displayed. The Naval Reservists, the Territorial Army, the Auxiliary Air Force, the Observers' Corps, obeyed the summons to mobilise very readily. We must remember that most of these men gave up their peace time work at a moment's notice to serve their country. We should like to thank them. We should like to thank also the employers who accepted the inevitable inconvenience of mobilisation. I know that they will show the same spirit of patriotic co-operation in taking back all their former employÉs when they are demobilised. I know that, although the crisis has passed, they will feel proud that they are employing men upon whom the State can rely if a crisis should return.

While we must renew our determination to fill up the deficiencies that yet remain in our armaments and in our defensive precautions, so that we may be ready to defend ourselves and make our diplomacy effective—[Interruption]—yes I am a realist—nevertheless I say with an equal sense of reality that I do see fresh opportunities of approaching this subject of disarmament opening up before us, and I believe that they are at least as hopeful to-day as they have been at any previous time. It is to such tasks—the winning back of confidence, the gradual removal of hostility between nations until they feel that they can safely discard their weapons, one by one, that I would wish to devote what energy and time may be left to me before I hand over my office to younger men.

§ Mr. Attlee

We have listened to two remarkable speeches. The House always 51 listens with particular sympathy to a Minister who has resigned his office on account of serious disagreement on policy. The right hon. Gentleman made a remarkably clear and cogent speech, a speech that will need a reply, a speech that certainly was not answered in the speech of the Prime Minister. We have all been living through difficult and dangerous times and we are living to-day in difficult and dangerous times. The Prime Minister at the close of his speech said that we must continue to arm. It was a comment on his other statement that we have peace for our generation.

We all feel relief that war has not come this time. Every one of us has been passing through days of anxiety; we cannot, however, feel that peace has been established, but that we have nothing but an armistice in a state of war. We have been unable to go in for care-free rejoicing. We have felt that we are in the midst of a tragedy. We have felt humiliation. This has not been a victory for reason and humanity. It has been a victory for brute force. At every stage of the proceedings there have been time limits laid down by the owner and ruler of armed force. The terms have not been terms negotiated; they have been terms laid down as ultimata. We have seen to-day a gallant, civilised and democratic people betrayed and handed over to a ruthless despotism. We have seen something more. We have seen the cause of democracy, which is, in our view, the cause of civilisation and humanity, receive a terrible defeat.

I think that in the mind of every thoughtful person in this country when he heard that this settlement had been arrived at at Munich, there was a conflict. On the one hand there was enormous relief that war had been averted, at all events for the time being; on the other, there was a sense of humiliation and foreboding for the future. If I may compare my feelings at that time, they were akin to those I felt on the night that we evacuated the Gallipoli Peninsula. There was sorrow for sacrifice. There was sorrow over the great chance of ending the war earlier that had passed away. There was, perhaps, some feeling of satisfaction that for a short time one was getting away from the firing line, but there was the certain and sure knowledge that before very long we should be in it again.

52 The events of these last few days constitute one of the greatest diplomatic defeats that this country and France have ever sustained. There can be no doubt that it is a tremendous victory for Herr Hitler. Without firing a shot, by the mere display of military force, he has achieved a dominating position in Europe which Germany failed to win after four years of war. He has overturned the balance of power in Europe. He has destroyed the last fortress of democracy in Eastern Europe which stood in the way of his ambition. He has opened his way to the food, the oil and the resources which he requires in order to consolidate his military power, and he has successfully defeated and reduced to impotence the forces that might have stood against the rule of violence.

The Prime Minister has given us an account of his actions. Everybody recognises the great exertions he has made in the cause of peace. When the captain of a ship by disregarding all rules of navigation has gone right off his course and run the ship into great danger, watchers from the shore, naturally impressed with the captain's frantic efforts to try to save something from the shipwreck, cheer him when he comes ashore and even want to give him a testimonial, but there follows an inquiry, an inquest, on the victims, and the question will be asked how the vessel got so far off its course, how and why it was so hazarded? All the faults of seamanship and errors of judgment must be brought to light, and no amount of devotion at the eleventh hour will save that captain from the verdict that he has hazarded his ship through bad seamanship. Parliament is the grand inquest of the British nation, and it is our duty to inquire not alone into the actions of the Prime Minister during the last few days or the last few weeks, but into the whole course of policy which has brought this country into such great danger and such great anxiety.

Many people have been paying tributes to the Prime Minister with great enthusiasm as the man who saved the peace. Yes, but he is the man who brought us into danger of war. The same Government that has been grappling with these dangers in the last few days has been responsible for the policy of this country for the last seven years. We have to look at the background of these events as well as to the future. Before doing 53 so I would like to pay my tribute on behalf of my friends, and express our sympathy with President Benes and the people of Czechoslovakia. I do so the more because, although the Prime Minister has paid a tribute to-day, I think that tribute was belated, and that some words of sympathy might be said in this Debate. These are the victims of aggression. They have shown marvellous courage and self-control. It is the Czechs who kept the peace of Europe; it is their sacrifice which has averted war. Most people in this country believe that the Czechs have been shamefully betrayed by those pledged to stand by them. Faced with the threat of armed attack from without and murder and outrage within, instigated from without, exposed to violent slander and abuse by their enemy, and deserted by those whom they had a right to trust, they have shown dignity, courage and self-control worthy of a great democracy, and their distinguished President, a great patriot, and also a great European, who has been assailed by the German Press and the German leader in most disgraceful language, has never stooped to reply. His bearing throughout has shown the difference between a civilised man and a gangster.

I have had the privilege to visit Czechoslovakia and I know many of the Czechs. They are a fine, free and democratic people. I know Sudeten Germans, too. Sudeten Germans are now flying from the country because Germany has entered. When you come to think of it, what has been the fault of the Czechs? It is not a fault: it is a misfortune. It is not what they are, but where they are that has caused all the trouble. I should like to say that one of the points on which we shall require a great deal more elucidation before the Debate is ended is why, in all these proceedings, everyone seems to have been approached except the Czechs. There are visits to Herr Hitler, Signor Mussolini is called in, but there seems to have been no real contact with the leader of the Czech Government. Peace has been preserved at a price, but the immediate people who pay the price are the Czechs. The armaments which they have built up, which they scraped and pinched themselves to build, are to be handed over to the Germans—armaments which they built at the request of their allies and which were brought into 54 these areas on mobilisation will have to be left there. They have lost some of their most valuable assets and will have an enormous refugee problem to deal with. I was glad to hear from the Prime Minister that something is to be done to help them. I would give them more than a loan, more than a guarantee. I know many poor people in this country who are sending along their pennies and shillings on account of their sympathy with the Czech people. If war has been averted it has been due to the Czechs, and in Britain and France great efforts should be made to help them to grapple with their misfortunes.

I want to turn now to the cause of the crisis which we have undergone. The cause was not the existence of minorities in Czechoslovakia; it was not that the position of the Sudeten Germans had become intolerable. It was not the wonderful principle of self-determination. It was because Herr Hitler had decided that the time was ripe for another step forward in his design to dominate Europe. I think it is necessary to be clear on this, because the Prime Minister seems to me to be laying a great deal too much stress on the anxiety of Herr Hitler for his fellow-Germans in Czechoslovakia. I have no doubt that has been so, but it did not become intense until about two years ago. It was quite a minor matter, and I fear that the Prime Minister is deceived if he thinks that the cause of this trouble has been the woes of the Sudeten Germans. I say that the question of the Sudeten Germans has been used as a counter in the game of politics, and in other conditions Herr Hitler might just as well have used the people of Memel, the people of South Denmark, the people in the Trentino or the Germans in South Tyrol. The minorities question is no new one. It existed before the War and it existed after the War, because the problem of Germans in Czechoslovakia succeeded that of the Czechs in German Austria, just as the problem of Germans In the Tyrol succeeded that of the Italians in Trieste, and short of a drastic and entire reshuffling of these populations there is no possible solution to the problem of minorities in Europe except toleration.

The Peace Treaties created many more difficulties. [Interruption.] Yes, but we were the people at the time who protested. Undoubtedly many injustices 55 were done, but I contend that no State on the Continent of Europe has behaved better to its minorities than has Czechoslovakia. There are grievances, Lord Runciman quoted some, but if you compare these minorities with the Germans in the Trentino or with the Jews and Catholics or the Socialists in Germany, their position is as heaven to hell. If there are faults between the Czechs and Germans, the faults were not all on one side. There has been deliberate provocation from outside. Whatever these men and women had in the way of disabilities, they were free men and women in a free State: they were citizens. They filled high places in the Government and enjoyed full cultural autonomy. The Czechs and Germans have lived together for 800 years, and it was not until the Nazi propaganda and money from abroad inflamed passions that the situation became serious. It was not until the Germans entered the Rhine zone that these troubles increased, and it was not until after the Anschluss that they became acute.

The Sudeten question did not depend, and has not depended, on internal conditions in Czechoslovakia. It has depended on the march of Herr Hitler towards his objective. Lord Runciman's letter shows quite plainly that the question of a settlement did not arise with the Czech authorities or with the Sudetens because that at every stage in an attempted settlement Herr Hitler and his henchmen intervened. History has proved that in times of peace the two people can live together on friendly terms, but the tragedy is that there has not been peace all the time. It is easy to say that the Czech Government were slow to deal with the matter, and that they ought to have acted sooner. There may be a case for that, but I doubt whether the Unionist party are the people who should say that. They have not been particularly happy in dealing with the question of minorities, or mixed minorities, and they have many outstanding questions to deal with at the present day.

I fear that the House is faced with this, that the real outstanding problem in this business, the real big issue, the central fact of the situation, is that the map of Europe has been forcibly altered by the threat of war. Herr Hitler has successfully asserted the law of the jungle. He 56 has claimed to do what he will by force and in doing so has struck at the roots of the life of civilised peoples. In doing this to one nation he threatens all, and if he does this, and he has with impunity, there is no longer any peace in the world even although there may be a pause in actual warfare. The whole of Europe is now under the constant menace of armed force. That is why many people cannot feel very happy about the present situation. They feel that there has been an immense victory for force and wrong. Ever since the last War people have realised that if peace is to be preserved there must be something above the will of the individual ruler of an armed State. That is the whole basis of the League of Nations and many people are surprised to-day to be under this menace—people who have grown to political consciousness in the years from 1918 to 1932, because between those years there was peace. Now we have gone back.

I say we are witnessing a degeneration of the world due to two things. The first thing is the failure to deal with the political and economic questions arising out of the follies of the Peace Treaties, and arising out of the widespread injustice and maladjustments of the economic system. The other thing is the failure to deal with force, the failure to restrain aggression. The Disarmament Conference's failure; the failure of the World Economic Conference; aggression in Manchuria, Abyssinia, Spain, Austria and Czechoslovakia—these are milestones that mark the road to the abyss. We on these benches have, again and again, shown the danger of a policy which failed to restrain aggression, which failed to face the issue, which neither stood firm against aggression, nor tried to deal with causes. We stood for collective restraint against aggression, in cases where some hon. Members thought it did not concern us, because we knew that we could not separate the issues of peace and that a threat that might be as far away as China would come eventually to this country.

The history of the last seven years is the background of this crisis, and the first point I must make to the Government is this. This crisis did not come unexpectedly. It was obvious to any intelligent student of foreign affairs that this attack would come. The immediate signal was given by the Prime Minister 57 himself on 7th March of this year when he said: "What country in Europe to-day if threatened by a larger Power can rely upon the League for protection? None." It was at once an invitation to Herr Hitler and a confession of the failure of the Government. The invitation was accepted a few days later by the Anschluss in Austria. Then our Government and the French Government could have faced the consequences. They could have told Czechoslovakia "We cannot any longer defend you. You had better now make the best terms you can with Germany, enter her political orbit and give her anything to escape before the wrath comes upon you." But they did nothing of the sort. Czechoslovakia continued under the supposed shelter of these treaties. True, it was urged that something should be done for the Sudeten Germans but there was no attempt made to take early steps to prevent this aggression.

I compared the Prime Minister to the captain of a ship not taking any steps until the eleventh hour. The trouble is in these matters that it is the early steps that count, and it was so in the matter of Abyssinia. Early warning was not given and the Duce was allowed to commit himself. In this case early warning was not given and Herr Hitler was allowed to commit himself. If it had been decided to stand by Czechoslovakia, steps should have been taken at once, as has been urged in this House very often by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill), to build up the forces that would stand against aggression. After the events of 21st May two things were obvious—the designs of Herr Hitler and also the fact that they could be stopped, because they were stopped then by the resolution of the Czech Government. The prime weakness throughout the whole business has been that the Government have never tried to get together the Powers that might stop it.

I heard a suggestion from the benches opposite. "What about the U.S.S.R.?" Throughout the whole of these proceedings the U.S.S.R. has stood by its pledges and its declarations and there has been some pretty hard lying about it, too. There have been lies told, and people knew they were lies, about alleged conversations between M. Litvinoff and the French Foreign Minister. At no time 58 has there been any difficulty in knowing where the U.S.S.R. stood. At no time has there been any consultation. I am aware that the Prime Minister may say that we were not the prime factor in this problem and that we were only concerned after France had been brought into it. But we have had very close collaboration with France, and in the order of commitment the U.S.S.R. comes before this country, and it has been a very great weakness that throughout there has been this cold-shouldering of the U.S.S.R. The Prime Minister cannot bear even to mention them. They were never brought into consultation except on one occasion, and that was when it looked as if things were coming to the worst, and their help was wanted. Then an approach was made, but when it was a question of negotiation they were not brought in at all. I do riot know whether they will be brought into any future negotiations. But there you get the weakness of this Government and at the same time of France—and I say the weakness of France is even greater. At no time did they make up their minds whether they were going to stand or to tell Czechoslovakia to make its own terms.

Now I come to the personal action of the Prime Minister. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for St. George's (Mr. D. Cooper) has given his view as to what ought to have been done. We on our side stated, as he stated, that we believed that the best chance of preventing war was a firm declaration by Britain, France, the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics and all other States open to be brought in, to stand against aggression. I still think that would have stopped this tragedy. The Prime Minister said that we were not immediately involved and that we had only our duty under the League of Nations. By the way, it does not appear that anything was ever clone to bring this before the League of Nations although two years ago, in answer to a question by my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Mr. Dalton), the Prime Minister said that if there was any question of a threat to Czechoslovakia he would at once take it to the League of Nations and that we should be prepared to do our full duty to the League of Nations. The League of Nations has been sitting and I understand that Lord De La Warr and the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs have been in attend- 59 ance, and I am not aware that at any time any attempt has been made to bring this matter before the League.

When the Prime Minister went to Berchtesgaden and when he accepted, or rather when he drew out the terms which he thought Herr Hitler would accept and by ultimatum, together with the French, forced them on the Czech Government, he then undertook far bigger commitments than this country had ever had before. When the Prime Minister took the unconventional step of going over himself to see Herr Hitler in order that he might know just where this country stood, there was little attempt at any criticism. But when he came back he did not come back as a negotiator. A negotiator considers both sides, but the Prime Minister considered only one side. He merely drew out a scheme which he thought would please Herr Hitler. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] I do not think I am being unfair to the Prime Minister. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] He tried to find out what Herr Hitler wanted. It was his determination to try to get something which he thought Herr Hitler would accept, and then he brought it and forced it on President Benes. That is not negotiation. That is merely delivering an ultimatum on behalf of one side. At that moment when that map was accepted, the real interests of Czechoslovakia had been sacrificed. We on this side could not accept that map. We believed that it was equivalent to the destruction of the State. But it was adopted, and it was adopted in a hurry.

The Prime Minister has pointed out the time factor. He was acting under the time factor all the time, because Herr Hitler would not wait. When once those terms had been accepted by Czechoslovakia there was no need whatever for this haste. The Prime Minister says there was danger of outrages on both sides. He knows perfectly well that the outrages came only from one sides. He knows perfectly well that order was kept by the Czechs in the face of great provocation and that disorder could have been stopped. He knows perfectly well that that pressure was because Herr Hitler had decided on certain dates, and had set his military machine in order. I need not go through the whole story, but the Prime Minister went again to Godesberg. 60 There he received another ultimatum, an ultimatum so disgraceful—it was described admirably by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for St. George's—that he did not recommend it to the Czech Government. When the Czech Government resisted it, then and then only, was it decided to make a stand.

It was at that point that the Prime Minister thought a stand must be made, even at the risk of war. Subsequently as we know there were further negotiations and there were alterations in the Godesberg plan. I listened very carefully to the Prime Minister as he detailed these alterations because it seemed to me there was a very narrow line between the terms which the Prime Minister thought we ought to resist by force of arms, and the terms which, he thought, should be forced on the Czech Government. The Prime Minister was in this position. He was in a difficulty, as all the world is in a difficulty, with this danger of war. Every one of us realises this terrible danger of war. We would all have done anything to avert that war with honour. The Prime Minister has averted that war for the time being. If, I take it, there had been only the Godesberg resolution we should be in war at the present time. But, I confess I find it difficult to understand exactly that line.

The Prime Minister, in effect, had really surrendered Czechoslovakia long before—it was really when he laid this plan before the Czech Government on his return from Berchtesgaden. All his efforts to save peace—and we all recognise the efforts he has made—do not alter the fact that on the main question, he had already completely given way to the force of Herr Hitler's demands and, therefore, although we have a war averted, we have the recognition that the will of an armed dictator is supreme in the world. I am not putting all the blame on this Government. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] I thought that at every point I had made that quite plain. There has been great procrastination by the French Government. I pointed out—and this is the gravamen of our case—that those two governments took the responsibility for Czechoslovakia, and if they did not mean Czechoslovakia to stand firm, they ought to have told them so. That is where our betrayal comes in—leading people to think we will stand by them, and then for- 61 saking them. And this leads back all the time to the failure to have a clear policy.

There is a question which I would like to ask on these negotiations. I would like to ask what real protection there is going to be for minorities. The Prime Minister is very proud that he has secured six months during which inhabitants may opt, but what kind of life will a Jew or a German social democrat have in Sudeten Germany during the six months during which he has the chance of opting, and what will happen if he does opt for Czechoslovakia? The fact is that in reality these people are forced to flee at once from the terror.

Another question I would ask is, what is the nature of the guarantee that this country is going to give, and I would rather like to ask, who are going to guarantee the new Czechoslovakia without its defensible frontier? Is it just our-selves and France? Are the United Soviet Socialist Republics ruled out? Another question I would like to ask of the Prime Minister is, what is the value of that guarantee? And a further question which I would like to ask is this: As the outcome of these negotiations, to what has he committed this country? Everybody realises that one of the difficulties in this situation has been the isolation of Czechoslovakia from both Great Britain and France. Unless that guarantee is to be inoperative, does it not commit us to making war on an aggressor if, as a matter of fact, the new Czechoslovakia is violated? We ought to know that. The right hon. Member for St. George's, Westminster, said that it was a new commitment to guarantee the frontiers of a Continental country. I want to know whether this is a real guarantee. It is very important that we should not pledge our word to what we cannot carry out.

I want to refer by way of question to one or two other aspects of these negotiations. No one has questioned that the Prime Minister has been very energetic in trying to preserve peace, but it is a question whether he has chosen the best way. In effect, the Prime Minister, ever since the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Mr. Eden) resigned the office of Foreign Secretary, has been his own Foreign Secretary. There is a certain danger in that. We hear of policy described not as the policy of the British Government, not as British 62 policy or as Government policy, but as Chamberlain policy. I think it is rather dangerous if the Prime Minister puts his personal position at stake. When the Prime Minister makes some kind of arrangement with Signor Mussolini, it all comes down eventually to the fact that the Prime Minister accepts Signor Mussolini's word, and he then stakes his whole political position on his own personal belief that that word will be kept; and when as a matter of fact it is not kept, he cannot do anything about it. So in going to Herr Hitler I recognise that he went because he wanted to see whether he could get close to Herr Hitler, but he now has to stake everything on his personal belief that Herr Hitler is different, and has a different policy from that which everybody else believes he has.

I think it is dangerous when these things are undertaken without the skilled advice of the Foreign Office; I think it is dangerous when advice is taken from those without very much experience—in fact, with no experience—in foreign affairs. And I emphasise a further difficulty. I think it is definitely dangerous for this country if there is a kind of idea that this country, like Germany or Italy, speaks only through the mouth of one particular man. I know that the Prime Minister is not responsible for that, but the cheaper Press endeavours to put him in that position. The real function of a British Prime Minister is not to be a superman; he is the servant of the greatest democracy in the world. When I urged the summoning of Parliament—and I am sorry that Parliament was not summoned—it was because I knew that he would go to another interview and would take part in any discussions in a far stronger position if he were fortified by the opinions of the elected representatives of the people, and I confess that I think it is disturbing, and an unfortunate precedent, if it be thought that things can be settled offhand by the Duce and the Prime Minister, or by the Prime Minister and the Fuhrer, who are put on the same level. The Prime Minister can meet them, but as long as we retain our democracy the Prime Minister will never be in the same position as the Duce or the Fuhrer.

When the National Government overthrew the whole policy of collective security and abandoned it and the League, we told this House over and over 63 again that we were entering on a very dangerous course. We realised that we were back in 1914 with all its dangers, and we knew that sooner or later a challenge would come to this country; and that is what has happened. The real pith of it is that, having decided to leave the League system which we practised and in which we believed, and to embark on a policy of alliances and power politics, instead of strengthening the people whose natural interests were with ours, we have had nothing but constant flirtations with this and that dictator. The Prime Minister has been the dupe of the dictators, and I say that to-day we are in a dangerous position.

The military correspondent of the "Times," in a book which has just been published and which is well worth reading, has a passage in which he says that the second great war of the twentieth century began in July 1936, following the experience which had been gained by Japan in Manchuria and by Italy in Abyssinia. I ask the Prime Minister, in what kind of position do we find ourselves in this country in this, the third year of this new kind of war? We find Italy established in the Eastern and Western Mediterranean, we find Italy and Germany with a foothold on the Atlantic route; by the reoccupation of the Rhineland France is shut in; by the seizing of Austria and by the overthrow of Czechoslovakia the whole of Central Europe and its resources and the great strategic position of Czechoslovakia have been handed over to Herr Hitler. I say the position is one of great danger. We are left isolated. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republic may well hold aloof in future when it considers what little trust can be placed on our Western democracies, and we shall he left alone with France; all our potential allies have gone; and France, which in my view has the greatest responsibility for this debacle of policy, finds herself in the position of a second-class State.

And what have we got in place of the alliances and covenants and collective security and all the rest of it which buttressed this country in the past? We are left with two promises, one from Signor Mussolini and one from Herr Hitler. That is really all that we have got. We have to walk by faith—the faith of the Prime Minister in Signor Mussolini and 64 his faith in Herr Hitler. The Prime Minister has said how difficult it was for Herr Hitler to recede from a statement which he had once made. I have five pages of statements made by Herr Hitler, from every one of which he has receded. I need not go through them; you know them—pages of them; but the Prime Minister says against all experience that he has faith in Herr Hitler's promise, grounded on two or three interviews—a pretty flimsy support for this country.

I ask, what is to happen next? What reason have we to think that Herr Hitler will stop now? Suppose he does not. What will happen? Suppose he now says that he wants colonies, what will the Prime Minister say when he asks the people of this country for them? But suppose he does not ask for British colonies at all; suppose he only asks for the Belgian Congo, or supposing he asks from Holland Sumatra or Java, what is the position? Czechoslovakia has gone. If there were any doubt about our ability to stand against these armed forces, there is far less now. That is the position in which we have been placed.

The suggestion is made in some quarters that we may now have a Four-Power Pact of the great Powers. I think that would be enormously dangerous at the present time. In any such pact this country will be definitely the junior partner. It will be a pact against liberty; it will be a pact like that of the Holy Alliance of a hundred years ago, and the British people will not have it. And liberty will be attacked not only abroad, but in this country, too. If the Prime Minister wants to walk with the dictators, he will have to conform to their wishes. The fact is that in the game of power politics this country and France have received a great defeat. I am not saying that this is all due to the present Prime Minister. The seeds of the present situation were sown long ago by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, they were watered by the present Home Secretary, and tended by the whole of this great National Government. Seven years of National Government have brought us to a day of humiliation, to a more dangerous position and a more humiliating position than any that we have occupied since the days of Charles II. The moral of this is that the day when our policy changed, when we left the path of collective security in the League of Nations, when we abandoned the attempt to make peace 65 through the League and under collective security, that day we took a step towards war. What are we offered now? All we are offered now by the Prime Minister is to push on with rearmament. Well, the people have seen the gas masks, they have seen the trenches. They have fear in their hearts, and as long as you follow this hopeless policy of power politics, you will never lift this fear of war from the people.

In these bad days there are, I believe, two things from which we may draw some comfort. One was the resolution and calm of our own people in this crisis. I believe that the Prime Minster must have been able to bring to Herr Hitler—I hope he did—some sense of the resolution of the people of this country, because it is one of the dangers of the situation that the idea has gone abroad that this is a decadent country. That idea is fostered by some of those people, unfortunately, who are most friendly with the Nazis. I have a great admiration for complete pacifists of the type of my right hon. Friend the Member for Bow and Bromley (Mr. Lansbury). When he went to see Herr Hitler I think he raised the dignity of this country to a position of strength, but I am not favourable to people whom I would call merely the pleasure-loving people, who are pacifists because they will not take up any responsible position. I am afraid that the view that Herr Hitler may have got may be derived from them.

The second thing from which we may draw some comfort—and this again, I hope, has gone home to the dictators—is that everywhere throughout the world there is utter hatred and detestation of war. I believe that is as strong in Germany and in Italy as it is in this country, and I think that now is the time when an effort should be made to meet the real desires of the people of the world to redress the balance against the rulers. If this method, the method we have been pursuing hitherto, is pursued, sooner or later we shall be in the abyss, for we have been looking down an abyss in the last few days. This is not the time for four-Power pacts, for new alliances, for power politics; this is the time for a new peace conference and an all-in peace conference. Let us call in the good offices of the United States of America, and let us not exclude the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. I pleaded many months ago in this House that we wanted 66 a peace conference before the next war, but then I did not assume that the next war would be complete defeat, and that is why the Munich Conference was not a real peace conference. It was only the delivery of an armistice.

I want a real conference, a peace conference to which people will not come merely to rattle the sabre. I want a peace conference which will endeavour to deal with the causes of war that are affecting this world, the wrongs of the Versailles Treaty, the wrongs of minorities, to deal with the colonial question, to deal with the question of raw materials, to deal, above all, with the great economic question, the condition-of-the-people question. I believe that to-day, if the world can take a lesson from the events of these months, despite the sacrifice of the Czech people, there is an opportunity of going forward to build a new world. The Prime Minister is convinced of the good faith of Signor Mussolini and Herr Hitler. I would like to see that good faith show itself straight away by abandoning aggression in Spain. I would like to see that good faith shown by their coming to a conference. I would like to see them joining in trying to build up a new League. Herr Hitler says his only objection to the old League was that he felt it was a case of the victorious Powers in league against him, the victim of the last War. Well, he has now asserted himself, and no one can say he will not come in on an equality. But we desire that from this country there should go forth a demand for a real, new effort to try and rid the world of war, an effort to settle those questions without which you cannot get disarmament, without which you cannot get security. The real question that faces us in this Debate is not just a review of the past, not just our apprehensions of the present; it is, What can we do for the future of the human race?

§ Sir Archibald Sinclair

The whole country has been looking forward to this Debate. The speech of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the St. George's Division of Westminster (Mr. Cooper) has given it an unexpected point of departure. His resignation, in the hour of the Prime Minister's popular triumph, is nothing short of an act of political heroism, and his speech to-day 67 has helped to clarify the issues with which we are faced and must have increased the esteem in which he was already held in every quarter of the House.

The great issues which we are discussing to-day are fundamental, of immense importance, of infinite complexity, issues on which indeed there is ample room for differences of opinion and on which there are differences of opinion in every party represented in this House. They are, therefore, all the more suitable for cool, detached investigation and discussion in this assembly which, as the Leader of the Opposition reminded us, is the Grand Inquest of the nation. In discussing them, I shall be, as I am always am, quite frank with the House. I shall certainly have to criticise the policy which the Prime Minister has been following. I have never hidden from the House, from the moment he became Prime Minister, my respect for his personality, and I am sure that that respect which is felt by every Member of this House has been deepened by the courageous way in which he has carried his responsibilities during recent months. He paid a well-deserved tribute to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs for his share in these tremendous responsibilities, which, as he said himself, must leave upon those who have had to bear them marks which they will carry to their graves, and I am sure the whole House will feel that no one deserves a similar tribute more than the Prime Minister does himself.

The hatred of the masses of the people in every country for war, which has been the theme of so many of our speeches in this House, was strikingly illustrated in the flood of relief and thanksgiving which has swept over the world since the Munich Conference. The nightmare is over. The labourer goes peacefully to his work in the morning, his wife to her shopping, the mother sends her children happily to school, and, thank heaven, what the Prime Minister called the shadow of a great and imminent menace has been banished since Wednesday of last week. But we must ask—it is our duty to ask—Why did it loom so close? What and whose foreign policy was it that brought us to the edge of war? Not that of the official Opposition, for they have consistently opposed it; not 68 that of the party to which I have the honour to belong, for we have always advocated another; not that of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Mr. Eden), for he resigned his great office rather than be responsible for it; not that of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill), for he has always consistently condemned it.

The policy which brought us to the edge of war, from which we were extricated only at the price of immense sacrifices by a small and weak nation, and of the forfeiture of liberty for hundreds and thousands of Czechs and of Germans who are opposed to the Nazi dictatorship—that policy was the policy of successive retreats in the face of aggressive dictatorships—Abyssinia, Spain, Austria, and now Czechoslovakia. It was the policy of the Prime Minister which so nearly brought us into war last week. A policy which imposes injustice on a small and weak nation and tyranny on free men and women can never be the foundation of lasting peace.

I would also ask, Was it wise of the Prime Minister to tickle the ears of the groundlings in his broadcast speech the other night by talking of quarrels in distant lands between peoples of whom we know nothing? Ought not responsible public men rather strive to make people understand the importance to our lives at home, to our standard of living, to the employment of our people, and to the protection of our liberties, of distant but important places being either in our own hands or in the hands of those who respect treaties and subscribe to the principles of international relationships, upon which alone peace and order can rest? Gibraltar, Spain, Singapore, the Suez Canal, the Panama Canal, all are very distant, and some of us do not know very much about the people who live there. The Khyber Pass is distant too and very far inland, and yet it is the gateway through the mountain bulwark against the invasion of India, the bulwark of our prestige and political and economic position in that sub-continent. Czechoslovakia is much nearer home, and my foreboding is that we shall yet live to rue the day when His Majesty's Government sold the pass of freedom in Central Europe and laid open to the march of Germany all the peoples and resources of Eastern Europe.

69 Nor can I find in the Prime Minister's speech anything to justify the easy optimism which the newspapers have been so busily spreading over the weekend. Those forces in Germany which have counselled moderation are for the third time weakened and discredited; Herr von Ribbentrop and the extremists are vindicated. The discontented elements in Germany and in Italy are rallied by another dazzling triumph for the dictatorships over the democracies. We have not only given Sudetenland to Germany, but we have restored Germany to Herr Hitler and Italy to Signor Mussolini.

Let me at this point answer frankly the question, "What would you have done?" Let me refer, in passing, to a letter from a correspondent in the "Times" this morning who is concerned about the number of distinguished and worthy citizens of Britain who genuinely desire to attack Germany because it is governed by Nazis, and let me put on record my own testimony, the testimony of one who has been in close and frequent consultation with men of all parties during the present crisis, and let me, as leader of the smallest of the three parties in this House, pay a tribute of gratitude to the Prime Minister for the frankness and courtesy with which he has discussed these issues during the recent crisis with those of us who do not belong to his party. During those discussions that I have had with Members of the Government, with Members of the Opposition, with enthusiastic supporters of the Government and with some supporters of the Government who were not so enthusiastic, I have never met one person who wanted to make war on Germany and who was not as anxious as I was for peace. I found many who shared my fear that the Government were wobbling towards war—we know now that they wobbled to the very brink of it—and many shared my belief that the best way to establish peace firmly, not only for our time but for the time of our children, as the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Warwick and Leamington said in the last speech he made in the country as Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, was, on the one hand, to offer convincing proof to Germany that the nations which want international relationships regulated by reason and negotiation were prepared to work together in resist- 70 ance to force and to threats of force; and, on the other hand, to convince them that if force was abandoned we were ready to settle by negotiations all the legitimate grievances of Germany and other nations. But the will of the German dictator prevailed over the will of this Government and of the French Government, just as the will of the Italian dictator did in the dispute over Abyssinia, and in making his submission to Herr Hitler's threat of force the Prime Minister has sacrificed a vital principle in international affairs and weakened the foundations of democracy as well as of peace.

To say that this is a victory for negotiation over force is flagrantly untrue. It is clear that when the Prime Minister went to Berchtesgaden he had not the slightest intention of conceding any such terms to Herr Hitler as in fact he did. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for St. George's, Westminster, has told us to-day that he went with other proposals in his pocket, but the Prime Minister told us on Wednesday of last week that when he arrived in Berchtesgaden he found that the situation was much more acute and urgent than he had realised, What situation? Not the situation in Sudetenland. In Sudetenland Herr Henlein had fled and the Czechs were preserving order with very little difficulty or bloodshed, and actually two days after the Prime Minister arrived in Berchtesgaden a new national council of Sudeten Germans was formed, partly composed of Germans who had always opposed National Socialism, and partly of former members of the Sudeten Deutsch Partei who desired a peaceful agreement with the Czechoslovak Republic. Even to-day the "Times" special correspondent in Czechoslovakia reports that the Germans there—not the Czechs—seem bewildered and almost stunned, and this correspondent says that they are saying to one another, "We shouted and worked for local autonomy. We did not expect this. It has been done over our heads." No, it was not in Sudetenland that the situation had become more acute and more urgent, but in the mind and will of Herr Hitler. Confronted by his ruthless determination and military power, the Prime Minister wilted, and justice and respect for treaties, and even negotiations, were cast to the winds.

Let me justify each of those statements. The Prime Minister said that he conceded 71 self-determination. Do the facts justify that statement? We know that after consultation with the French Government he exerted extreme and irresistible pressure upon the Czech Government, to use his own words, "to agree immediately to the direct transfer to the Reich of all areas with over 50 per cent. Sudeten inhabitants." That is a plain travesty of self-determination, for it is quite clear that the 49 per cent. of Czechs are against cession and a substantial minority of the Germans as well. Moreover, the irruption of the German troops will sweep before them a whole crowd of refugees who would certainly have been in favour of remaining in those territories. There is no justice or self-determination about that. Let us be quite clear that the Prime Minister's submission to Herr Hitler's demands was not due to a sudden conversion to the justice of his case, but was extorted by threats of force.

I said that treaty obligations had been cast aside. The Prime Minister referred so lightly on Wednesday to our obligations to Czechoslovakia under the Covenant of the League of Nations, that I feel compelled to ask whether the Government still consider that those obligations are binding upon them, for until those obligations are repudiated we have bound ourselves to respect and to defend against aggression the independence and integrity of States members of the League, including Czechoslovakia. The Treaty obligation, however, to which I more particularly refer is the Treaty of Arbitration between Germany and Czechoslovakia. Speaking in this House on 14th March the Prime Minister informed us that the Czechoslovak Minister in Berlin had been assured by Baron von Neurath that Germany considered herself bound by the German-Czechoslovak Arbitration Convention of October, 1935. Yet when the Czechs appealed to that solemn treaty between their Government and the German Government, backed by a formal assurance of the German Government only six months ago, and when the Czechs declared that they preferred impartial justice to the results of the mediation of their French and British friends, their appeal was swept aside, not, indeed, by the German Government which never received it, nor by the British Cabinet, who probably read of it first in the newspapers, but by the Prime Minister with- 72 out even troubling to summon the Cabinet. So treaty obligations, confirmed only six months ago, were summarily disregarded.

As for the claim that Berchtesgaden or Munich vindicated negotiation as against force, there were, in fact, no negotiations, for one of the two principal parties, Czechoslovakia, was never even present. All that happened was that the French and British Governments conveyed to the Czech Government Herr Hitler's demands. One of the most astonishing features of the whole of this series of negotiations is that the Czechs have never been allowed to meet the Germans face to face or to ask for amendments to the plans which have been, with the exceptions of the Godesberg plan, forced upon them by successive ultimatums. So Herr Hitler, in defiance of justice and of his recently affirmed treaty obligations, has obtained without negotiations with the Czechs, but by ultimatums obediently presented by the French and British Governments his most extreme demands. Nor must we forget that when the much more modest proposal for the separation of Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia was made by the "Times" without any of the harsh provisions which Herr Hitler has since added, it was received with execration by public opinion in this country, and His Majesty's Government officially dissociated themselves from it. The truth is clear that the power and will of the German dictator has prevailed over treaty obligations and the sense of justice and the will of the free democracies.

We must not forget what this surrender means for the Czechs and for the German Jews and Social Democrats of Sudetenland. Lord Runciman remarked upon the unpopularity of the Czech State police, but does he suppose that the people of the transferred territories will prefer Herr Himmler's Gestapo? Hundreds of thousands of them are flying as refugees. Under Czech rule the Germans as well as the Czechs did enjoy the blessings of excellent schools, hospitals, clinics and other social services, and complete freedom to criticise and to demonstrate and organise against the Government in Prague. Now they must exchange freedom for tyranny or exile from their homes, and that necessity has been forced upon them by the democratic Governments of France and Britain. I pleaded with the Prime Minister on 73 Wednesday of last week for guarantees of their economic survival and political independence. The British and French Governments have forced them to submit to the deprivation of their strategic frontiers, the contraction of their territory and the reduction of their population to an extent which cannot now be accurately estimated but which must almost certainly make it impossible for them to maintain anything like their present scale of armaments, and which leaves them militarily defenceless in the face of their enemies. They have lost all their coal to Germany and Poland, together with their radium mines, their lead, immense rich forests, ironworks, glass works and other industries. The country was shocked by the Berchtesgaden plan, the Anglo-French plan. Only under extreme pressure did the Czechs accept it and on the understanding that the limit of concession had been reached.

From the moment that we exerted that pressure we were in honour bound to stand by the Czechs in seeing that the plan was made tolerable for them. The "Times" Diplomatic Correspondent told us before the visit to Bad Godesberg that this Government and the French Government were in agreement that the Czechs must have compensation for the sacrifices imposed upon them, but instead of receiving compensation they have had far worse terms fastened upon them. There is no guarantee for their access to their markets down the Elbe and the Danube. The truth is that we have sacrificed them to our peace and comfort, and we are honour bound to make to them substantial and prompt reparation. I welcome the announcement which the Prime Minister has made that we are going to give them promptly a credit of £10,000,000. I agree also with the Leader of the Opposition that that is not enough. We must not stop there. We must see that they really do have a chance of maintaining their economic and political independence within their restricted frontier. Honour demands at least that.

I want also to put some questions to His Majesty's Government about our guarantee of the Czech frontiers. If we and the French were unwilling to risk stouter resistance to Herr Hitler's demands while the Czech frontiers were in the mountains, the Czechs can hardly feel great confidence in our willingness to fulfil our guarantees when their frontiers 74 are weakened and their man-power and economic resources are reduced.

Why is not Russia mentioned, too, as a guarantor? Why is not Russia to be represented on the International Commission which is to be established under the Munich plan?—Russia who has proved to be a loyal member of the League; Russia, who in Spain and in China has actually befriended the victims of aggression; Russia, who is better situated than we are to bring help to the Czechs in the time of need; Russia, the historic protector of the Slav race; Russia, whom we need now more than ever to restore the balance of power in Europe; Russia, whom the Government named as an ally on Tuesday when they thought we were going to be in trouble but who are now excluded from the council chamber. His Majesty's Government will be making a disastrous mistake if they go on truckling to Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini and leave Russia standing outside, on the mat. Bring her in, and let her join in the guarantee to Czechoslovakia.

I want to know exactly what our guarantee amounts to. The Prime Minister said in the course of his speech that now we have got past the question of Czechoslovakia we can look forward more hopefully to the future. Have we got past it? He said the new system of guarantees would give her greater security in the future than she had had in the past. Let me put these definite questions to the Government. If, for example, the German Government demand the resignation of President Benes or any of the Ministers in the Czech Government, or if they attempt to exert economic pressure upon the Czechs, or interfere in any respect with their political freedom and independence, are we then bound to intervene? Another very important question. Will His Majesty's Government tell us, roughly, what, in the opinion of their General Staffs, will be necessary as an addition to our armaments if we are to add this new commitment to all our other commitments? And a still more important question. How are we to fulfil this guarantee, if the need arises, now that the Axis-Powers have a common frontier separating us from the Czechs? Do not let us tell the Czechs and Europe "Ah, we are giving the Czechs a guarantee" and congratulate ourselves that everybody knows what the word of Britain is worth 75 and then, when the time comes, have our Ministers telling us "Oh, but you must look at the map. You must see that the Axis-Powers divide us from Czechoslovakia. How can we give them any effective help? What can we do for them?" Do not let us wait until the crisis comes to have those questions asked and answered. Let them be answered in this Debate.

The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Warwick and Leamington resigned from the Government because the Prime Minister was deviating more and more from a League of Nations policy. It was supposed to involve us in undesirable foreign commitments. See how time works its revenges. Now, eight months later, the Prime Minister is involving us, for the first time in our history, in a direct and specific guarantee of a central European frontier.

What of the future? The Prime Minister asked us to accept two assurances which he has received from Herr Hitler. The first is that Herr Hitler has no wish to include in the Reich people of other races than the German. Yet, in the same speech in which the Prime Minister conveyed to Parliament that assurance from Herr Hitler, the Prime Minister told us that he had been informed by Herr Hitler that in his Bad Godesberg proposal he had offered to Czechoslovakia—I quote the Prime Minister's words: A frontier very different from the one he would have taken as the result of military conquest."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 28th September, 1938; cols. 21–2, Vol. 339.] How does the Prime Minister reconcile those two very obviously contradictory statements? The second assurance was that this was the last of Herr Hitler's territorial ambitions in Europe. It is an ungrateful task to me, and an unusual task, to throw doubt on assurances formally given by the leading representative of a great Power, but it is useless to pretend to forget the assurances given by Herr Hitler after the re-occupation of the Rhineland. The Leader of the Opposition said he had five pages of assurances. Let me read this one. It is what Herr Hitler said in the Reichstag in March, 1936: After three years I believe that I can regard the struggle for German equality as concluded to-day. … We know that all the tensions which arise from wrong territorial provisions 76 or the disproportions between the sizes of national populations and their living rooms cannot be solved in Europe by war. … We have no territorial demands to make in Europe. Now we are asked to believe this new assurance, given in almost the same terms. I have read the declaration which was signed by the Prime Minister and Herr Hitler, and I have listened to the Prime Minister's exposition of it, but I am left wondering still whether there is any real meaning and content in it. If there is, is it consistent with the Covenant of the League? I remember a speech by the Prime Minister in this House on 14th March in which he exhorted us to rely on a similar assurance which the German Government had given. The Prime Minister said then: I am informed that Field-Marshal Goering on 11th March gave a general assurance to the Czech Minister in Berlin—an assurance which he expressly renewed later on behalf of Herr Hitler—that it would be the earnest endeavour of the German Government to improve German-Czech relations."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 14th March, 1938; cols. 50–51, Vol. 333.] I agree with the Prime Minister that we must weigh carefully the Chancellor's words, but not only one set of comforting words; we must weigh all his words together. Two sources of enlightenment I enjoy about Herr Hitler's intentions. One source is his public speeches and the expression of his opinions and intentions in public and in private, and the other is "Mein Kampf." I prefer "Mein Kampf," because it has never yet let me down, and I commend it to the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister says that the Agreement in Munich is only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe will find peace, but on what terms? On terms of German hegemony in Europe, or on terms of freedom? Months ago the League of Nations was already so much weakened that we were back into power-politics, and now the balance of power in Europe is disastrously dislocated. Thirty divisions which were held on the Czech frontier are now released and are available to be hurled against the Western frontier. The 12 Austrian divisions which Herr Hitler gained by the Anschluss are gradually being re-equipped and will be available next year in addition to the 30 divisions. No peace can last in the present state of the world unless it is buttressed by power, 77 but when the Prime Minister talks of the necessity for our rearmament how can our rearmament keep pace with rearmament at the rate at which it is going on in Germany? There are 40 divisions brought into the scale within a single year, and the resources of all the smaller States of the Near East of Europe are lying open to her exploitation.

A great national and international effort will be necessary if we are to preserve freedom in the world. Freedom and democracy are gravely threatened. Is the consultation that Herr Hitler has promised us in his Agreement with the Prime Minister to be like the consultations at Berchtesgaden and Bad Godesberg, the delivery of ultimatums? As the right hon. Member for the St. George's Division of Westminster said, they led to no good. It was only when the Government issued a statement that France and Russia and Britain were going to stand together, and when the ex-First Lord of the Admiralty mobilised the Fleet, that at last we got some concession upon the Godesberg terms from Herr Hitler. Let us have this peace conference of which the Leader of the Opposition talks. Let us hope that Germany and Italy will return to the League, and that we may once again be able to settle the affairs of the world through the League; but before that happens we shall have to make a great effort to preserve the essential foundations of freedom and order in the world, to preserve democracy, that form of government which is inspired by consciousness of the dignity of man and the use of power only for good and lawful ends. To our generation it falls to guard that flame. Let His Majesty's Government call upon the men and women of this country to rally to the defence of freedom and justice, and we may yet save ourselves by our exertions, and democracy by our example.

§ Mr. Eden

The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Caithness (Sir A. Sinclair) has just given us a characteristic speech, in which he has shrewdly analysed some of the difficulties of the present international situation, and has courteously criticised some of the views of the Government and has given them advice. During the last three months it has been my privilege to listen in silence to many Debates upon foreign affairs. I confess that I enjoyed the dumb role; it is at once less responsible and less exacting; but it 78 seemed to me this afternoon that this was an occasion upon which it was the duty of any of us who had interested ourselves in the conduct of foreign affairs to speak to this House and to the nation, to express his conviction and, for what it may be worth, to offer suggestions for the future. At the outset of this Debate the House heard a remarkable speech from my right hon. Friend the Member for the St. George's Division of Westminster (Mr. Cooper). Whatever our views may be, there cannot have been one of us who was not impressed by the manifest sincerity of that speech. One can imagine the force of the conviction, how strong it must have been, to compel my right hon. Friend to take such a step at such a time, for quite obviously there could be no moment more painful to him, for personal and political reasons, than the one he had to choose. I feel sure that Members in all parts of the House will have wished to pay tribute to his courage. I, for my part, feel privileged to be allowed to do so.

When the House adjourned at the end of last summer and we went for our holidays, and some less fortunate Ministers continued their labours without the sitting of Parliament, there must have been many Members in all parts of the House who felt unable to share the optimism which was forecast to us for the immediate future of the international situation. There must have been many of us who thought the omens were inauspicious and who feared that long before the appointed date you, Mr. Speaker, would summon us back to this Assembly. Unfortunately, that has proved to be true. Each one of us, wherever he sits in the House, has felt the strain of the last few months, and during August and September saw clearly the clouds gather; but whatever the strain may have been on any private Member of this House, it was insignificant by comparison with the strain that rested upon those who bore the major burden of responsibility, and in particular upon my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister himself. We all owe him, and every citizen Owes him, a measureless debt of gratitude for the sincerity and pertinacity which he has devoted in the final phase of the crisis to averting the supreme calamity of war. I was glad to hear my right hon. Friend pay a tribute to the Foreign Secretary. I have a natural sympathy for Foreign Secretaries and I can imagine something 79 of the burden which must have been his of the day-to-day problems, of which the world sometimes hears nothing at all. I feel sure that the noble Lord is richly deserving of that tribute.

Now for the moment we can breathe again, and it is the duty of each one of us to devote what time we can to stocktaking and to considering how it was that Europe came thus to the very edge of the abyss; to considering what we can do to see to it that such a state of affairs shall never occur again. As I say, this is a time for stocktaking; it may also seem to some of us, as I confess it seems to me, to be a respite during which a great national effort is called for by our people. There is throughout the world at this time an immense sense of relief and thankfulness that was has been averted. Perhaps the most striking and most encouraging event of all during these recent weeks was the warmth of the spontaneous reception accorded in Germany to the Prime Minister. It was clearly a manifestation of the deep desire of the German people for peace. Nobody in this House has ever doubted that desire, but the fact that it has at last found expression may be a real signpost on the road to peace. Nor should we overlook the significance of those moral forces which in the last few days were gathering themselves to resist the march to war. No man could be altogether impervious to forces so imponderable, yet so compelling. President Roosevelt gave ample expression to those moral forces in the Notes which came from him. The first part of our lesson is surely that if the peoples of the world could speak to each other freely across the frontiers there would be no risk of war whatever; but that is not the position with which we have to deal.

The influences which finally contributed to averting war were many. It is probably too soon to attempt to analyse them, but one of them was certainly the Prime Minister's refusal to give up hope. Another was the efforts of President Roosevelt. A third was that genuine desire for peace among all peoples, German and Italian as well as French and British. A further one to which I would like to make special reference was the appearance in the Press of this country on Tuesday last of this statement: It was authoritatively stated in London last night that should Germany, in spite of all 80 efforts made by the British Prime Minister, attack Czechoslovakia, France would be compelled immediately to go to the Czechs' assistance and Britain and Russia would certainly stand by France. I believe that the historian of the future will give that statement an important place among the deterrents to war a week ago. Finally, there was the mobilisation of the British Fleet, with all that that portends. I must say that I agreed with my right hon. Friend when he stated in his speech that he wished some such step could have been taken at an earlier date; not necessarily the mobilisation of the Fleet in its entirety, but some visible action which would convince those who are more impressed by what they see than by what they hear, of the real earnestness of purpose of the British Fleet. In that, my right hon. Friend was right.

As I have said, it is too early to assess all those influences, but there is one to which the greatest tribute of all must be paid, and without which we could not hope to be at peace now: that has been the conduct of the Czechoslovak Government. In the practice of self-discipline we have been set a remarkable example by this brave people. Whatever may be the mistakes of the past—and I think we should not be too ready to condemn, for in our conduct in past years, even with minorities, our attitude has not perhaps been all that it might have been—nothing could have surpassed the calm dignity and steadfast courage of President Benes and the Czechoslovak nation. The strain to which they have been subjected has been harsh and continuous, yet they never once failed to appreciate the wider European issues involved. In view of the conditions imposed upon them they might well have expressed a blind bitterness, but at all times they have contributed to the European situation, and have shown by their conduct not only that they are a nation worthy of independence, but that they have laid all Europe under an obligation to them by having made the greatest contribution to the preservation of peace.

Now let me say a word about the negotiations themselves. His Majesty's Government and the French Government—and in this matter the French Government bear equal responsibility with ourselves—took certain decisions in the face of the German Chancellor's demands and decided to sponsor certain proposals for the solution of the Sudeten-German prob- 81 lem. My right hon. Friend explained to us this afternoon his difficulties in sponsoring those proposals. Frankly, I am not surprised. I do not suppose that any Member of the Government Bench could have felt any enthusiasm for such proposals, but whatever any Member of the House may think of them now, the fact remains that they have been accepted not only by all the Powers concerned, but by the Czech Government, and are now actually in operation. It does not seem to me that it is so important to consider whether we should praise or blame those proposals as it is to examine what the conditions were that caused the British Government to press such proposals on a friendly nation, and to consider once more what steps we are to take now to see that we do not have to play so unpleasing a role again.

§ Mr. Gallacher

A shameful role.

§ Mr. Eden

I do not propose to deal at length with the European situation and with the deterioration that it must be evident to all has taken place, as there will be other opportunities, no doubt, to do so. There are one or two observations which I would like to make about the Sudeten-German problem, and I venture to make them only because at the Foreign Office I was naturally concerned with the problem myself at one time.

The Sudeten Germans have had a grievance. Let there be no doubt whatever about that, but it is a grievance of discrimination, even of severe discrimination, if you will, rather than a grievance of oppression. That is made abundantly clear in Lord Runciman's own letter printed in the White Paper. As a minority they suffered in the post-War years, but where is the minority in Central or Eastern Europe that has not had cause to complain? It is very important that we should be fair in this matter. I say that no German minority anywhere else, in Central or Eastern Europe, is enjoying to-day privileges equal to those which the Sudeten Germans have had. I want to give the House one example. Last winter a minorities treaty was negotiated between Poland and Germany, and it was acclaimed and rightly acclaimed by the Press of both countries. Well, the terms of that Treaty offered the German minority in Poland rights less than those which the Sudeten Germans have always enjoyed.

82 In the light of those things might not the Czech Government sometimes feel that in the last few months it has always been they who have been asked to make all the concessions and that their attitude has received rather scant recognition? Moreover, is there any one in this House who would deny that the grievances of the Sudeten Germans, substantial as they were, were not in a fair way to being resolved? Lord Runciman, whose efforts in this difficult time and whose services are beyond all praise—for he did a truly wonderful piece of work under the greatest of difficulties—had virtually reached an agreement. The plan which he put forward or which, under advice from him, Dr. Benes put forward, and known as the Fourth Plan was a marked advance on any of its predecessors. It would have given the Sudeten Germans the position of a privileged minority in all Europe. That plan was not wrecked from within; it was vetoed from without. The Anglo-French proposals, whatever else we may think of them, offered more than full satisfaction to the claims of the Sudeten Germans. Those proposals contained still further concessions. No one, I suppose, would wish to contend that those proposals are just. War has been averted, for which the world is immeasurably grateful; but let it be remembered that war has been averted, not at our expense or that of any other great Power, but at the cost of grave injustice to a small and friendly nation. Czechoslovakia was not even heard in her own defence.

All territories with even a bare majority of Sudeten Germans are to be transferred to the rule of the present German rÉgime. But are we certain that these people wish to be so transferred? We can have no such assurance. The population in large parts of those areas are not to be consulted. Let the House consider for a moment the elements that make up the Sudeten Germans. There are the Social Democrats, there are the Jews, and there are other sections. Did the House notice the deputation from some of the most famous Bohemian families that called on M. Benes a short while ago to assure him of their loyalty to the Czechoslovak State? These matters are significant, and there can be no doubt that among the Sudeten Germans there is a very considerable minority that does not desire union with the Reich. Therefore, I think 83 we must all reluctantly admit that the Munich proposals, whatever else they may be, are not self-determination. Yet they have been accepted by the Czech Government—accepted under strong pressure. There can be few of us who, whatever our sense of relief, did not feel also a sense of humiliation when we read those proposals. Surely—and here I would address an appeal to the Government if I might—the time allotted to these proposals is cruelly short. Imagine the position of a Czech Sudeten German or a Jew in any one of these four areas, or in the fifth area, the boundaries of which are at present still unknown. To-day is the 3rd October. The last date by which they have to get out is the 10th, and no one yet knows the boundaries. Imagine the position. I think I am right——

§ The Prime Minister

I think that, if I understood my right hon. Friend correctly, he has not fully understood. There is no insistence that persons who wish to opt out of the territory must get out by 10th October. [Interruption.] Surely, my right hon. Friend and I may be allowed to understand one another. I understood my right hon. Friend to be under the impression that everyone who wanted to get out had to get out by 10th October. That is not the position. The position is that the Czech forces—the soldiers and police—have to be out by the 10th, but the inhabitants' power to opt remains beyond the 10th.

§ Mr. Eden

There is no misunderstanding at all. I fully understood that the power to opt continues. I was trying to put myself in the position of a German Jew or a German Social Democrat in those areas, knowing that by the 10th German troops would enter. Even though there might remain with me a power to opt later, I feel that I would rather make assurance doubly sure. That was all that I meant by saying that the time was cruelly short. I do not believe, though I fully appreciate the sincerity and, if you like, the value of this power to opt, that any of these unhappy people would be prepared to run that risk. I believe—the Government know much better than I do—that what is happening to-day is something like a panic flight of these unhappy people from a rule which they dread. I do not know whether it would yet be possible to extend a little 84 longer at least the last period in respect of the area which has not been delimited. I know we all appreciate the immense difficulty under which these arrangements were negotiated, and that must be the explanation why certain matters seem to have been neglected.

I was very glad to hear what my right hon. Friend said earlier this afternoon about the loan to Czechoslovakia. I am certain that the whole House will support the Government in that decision, and I do not think we ought to be the only one, either, to make that offer. It is not only a question of a loan for reconstruction; there is also the problem of compensation. Are any of these unfortunate people to receive any compensation when they have been faced with the alternative of losing their livelihood or, as they think, imperilling their lives? Is the Czech Government to receive any compensation for the public services it has to leave behind. Surely, there ought to be reciprocity in these Munich proposals. The Czechoslovak Government have accepted the proposal to release any Sudeten Germans at present imprisoned in their territory, but what of the Czechs imprisoned in Germany? We read in the "Daily Telegraph" this morning that there are 800 of them. Are not they to enjoy equal rights of release? Certainly I think the House will feel that they should.

I should be glad if whoever is speaking for the Government at the close of this Debate can give us any information about the position of the Czechoslovak State Debt. The House will perhaps recall that that State had a loan in London and elsewhere which bears a very high rate of interest. Czechoslovakia has never defaulted—a very remarkable behaviour anywhere in these times, and, I think, quite unique in Central or Eastern Europe. Is Germany going to bear a part of this burden of debt in respect of the large areas of Czechoslovakia which she is going to absorb; or is the truncated State supposed to bear the whole burden? There is no doubt as to what in justice the arrangement should be.

I have tried, as the House has in the short time available, to study the White Paper which has been issued to us. My right hon. Friend maintained, and, I thought, maintained with success, that 85 there was definitely some modification in these Munich proposals as compared with those which had been given to him with what we might call the second ultimatum. But it is extremely difficult for anyone not conversant with the details to pass judgment. I suggest that the maps in the White Paper are in themselves somewhat deceptive—inevitably deceptive, but I think a word of caution should perhaps be uttered. If we compare the two maps, the House will be struck by the very much smaller area of the Munich map as compared with the Godesberg map. But, of course, the Munich map, again through no fault of the Government, does not contain the fifth area, which is to be occupied before 10th October; nor does the second map contain the plebiscite areas, because they have yet to be defined. In consequence, one is bound to some extent, and I am sure my right hon. Friend will take no objection to this, to reserve judgment as to these proposals in detail until we see how they work out from the reports of the Commissions concerned.

It is impossible for anyone who has studied these matters in the past, and I feel sure the Prime Minister must share this feeling himself, not to feel grave anxiety for the future of this State when we look at these strangely contoured concessions. Is its economic life possible, is its continued political existence possible, in this reduced, and in this still unknown reduced, form? That is why I cannot but feel considerable anxiety about our guarantee. Under such conditions it must have specially grave significance. Let no one have a doubt as to the importance of this departure from our traditional policy. We have never done such a thing before, I think, in all our history, as guarantee frontiers, and in this case frontiers that do not exist. My anxiety is this, and I would like some information on the point. The Prime Minister hoped that the guarantee would be effective in steadying the situation. Only 24 hours after the Munich proposals, another Power issued another ultimatum, and another concession was made. The question is, when does that guarantee come into operation? Is it the case that it does not come into operation before all the frontiers are finally delimited; or does it come into operation now? It is important that we should know, so that the country may be aware what its 86 responsibility is. I should have thought that on moral grounds at least the guarantee had to come into force from the moment when the Czechoslovak State accepted the proposals pressed upon it.

I have voiced some of my anxieties in respect of these Munich proposals. I do not suppose for a moment that they have not occurred to other Members of the House, and are not in the mind of the Government. Yet the Czechoslovak State has accepted these proposals, drastic as they are, and has thereby given evidence of its desire for peace, to the extent even of imperilling its national security. What becomes of the language we have heard so often that the existence of Czechoslovakia was a menace to her neighbours? If the only potential aggressor in Europe was the Czechoslovak State, we could indeed go about our business with a light heart.

One other matter in connection with the negotiations. The Munich proposals were the outcome of a meeting of four of the Great Powers of Europe. It is natural, in those conditions, that there should be many who conjecture as to whether a Four-Power Pact, known to be dear to the heart of at least one of those at Munich last week, is to become also the policy of the British Government. I do not press for an answer if it be inconvenient to give it now, but I would like to enter my own prayer that that may not become our policy at this time and in these conditions. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will perhaps recall that this is not a new proposal, and that when he was Foreign Secretary there were very good reasons why we could not support the suggestion. Briefly, I think that to-day those reasons are twofold. There is no sufficient cause for seeking to organise Europe on a basis that excludes any great Power, nor do I believe you can secure the lasting peace of Europe on such a basis. Furthermore, it should always be the endeavour of British foreign policy to secure the co-operation of the smaller Powers of Europe: those Powers that are almost always on the side of peace—in fact the only time when they are not is when great Powers are stirring them up, as they were doing in the Balkans before 1914. Therefore, my plea would be that the Government should not embark on a policy that leads to a Four-Power Pact, and should remember that no Council of 87 Europe would be complete without the participation of all Powers, great and small.

It must have been evident to the House from the course of these discussions that there is a broad division of outlook at this time. There is a difference of view as to whether the events of the last few days do constitute the beginning o