Lords Amendment: In page 50, line 8, at the end, insert:
2. At least two of the members of the Commission shall be persons who have had administrative or other practical experience in the coal-mining industry.
§ 9.17 p.m.
§ Mr. George Hall
I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, at the end, to add: 716and one of these two members shall be a person who has been a wage-earner in the coal-mining industry.I do not think it is necessary to take up time in commending this Amendment to the House, as I understand the Secretary for Mines is prepared to accept it.
§ Captain Crookshank
I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment, as amended."
§ Lords Amendment: In page 50, line 31, leave out "or machinery or plant for coal mining."
§ 9.18 p.m.
§ Captain Crookshank
I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
This paragraph in the First Schedule deals with the various interests or securities which members of the Commission must dispose of before they can accept office. I do not think that these words are likely to make much difference or that the possibility of a member of the Commission holding a few shares in a company which made machinery and plant for coal mining would be likely to arise very often. It is to be remembered that the people who will be appointed to this Commission will be responsible people, and exception having been taken to the inclusion of these words, I think we might agree to leave them out.
§ 9.19 p.m.
§ Sir S. Cripps
These words were inserted in this House by the Government, for the purpose of protecting the impartiality of members of the Coal Commission. I could understand the hon. and gallant Gentleman saying that it was not necessary to have any restrictions at all, but that would be contrary to the practice followed in recent Acts of Parliament. If the aim of that practice is to eliminate corruption—and that presumably is the object of such provisions—then surely the manufacture of machinery and plant for 717 coal mining is the most dangerous of all these matters in the present case. The Commissioners will be in close contact with the lessees, and a lessee who desired to get favourable terms could best accomplish his end with a dishonest Commissioner—and it is to guard against dishonesty that such provisions as this are made—if that Commissioner were a person who sold machinery and plant. The lessee in that case would be able to give the Commissioner's firm orders for such machinery, in exchange for the Commissioner's support in obtaining particularly favourable terms.
I am not suggesting that any Commissioner will be dishonest, but if we are to put in any provision like this, and such provisions as I say have become common form in Acts of Parliament, then the one important thing to avoid here is the risk of having a Commissioner who is intimately connected with a business from which lessees will be large buyers. This business is even more important than the sale of coal or the manufacture in the sale of by-products. I cannot understand why these words, of all the words in this part of the Schedule, should be omitted. I should have thought that it was most valuable to retain them and that if we are to have anything in the way of protection of this kind, we should have the protection given by these words.
§ I cannot accept the hon. and gallant Gentleman's explanation of why they should be eliminated and we shall vote for their retention.
§ 9.22 p.m.
§ Captain Crookshank
I am sorry to disagree, not for the first time, with the hon. and learned Gentleman, but I do not think that the importance which he suggests is to be attached to these words. It is to be remembered that an alteration was previously made in the Schedule making it possible for a member of the trade union organisation to be a member of the Commission on the ground that that would not affect him in the discharge of his duty.
§ Captain Crookshank
Just as in the one case, we thought it was desirable to remove any restriction of that kind, so in this case we think the same sort of argument would apply. I do not think it is a matter of such consequence as the hon. and learned Member suggests.
§ Question put, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 145; Noes, 126.719
|Division No. 285.]||AYES.||[9.22 p.m.|
|Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J.||De la Bère, R.||Holmes, J. S.|
|Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.)||Denman, Hon. R. D.||Horsbrugh, Florence|
|Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G.||Denville, Alfred||Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)|
|Albery, Sir Irving||Doland, G. F.||Hume, Sir G. H.|
|Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead)||Donner, P. W.||Hunter, T.|
|Apsley, Lord||Dorman-Smith, Major Sir R. H.||Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir T. W. H.|
|Aske, Sir R. W.||Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side)||Joel, D. J. B.|
|Baillie, Sir A. W. M.||Dugdale, Captain T. L.||Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.)|
|Baldwin-Webb, Col. J.||Duncan, J. A. L.||Lamb, Sir J. Q.|
|Balfour, G. (Hampstead)||Edmondson, Major Sir J.||Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak)|
|Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet)||Ellis, Sir G.||Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.)|
|Barclay-Harvey, Sir C. M.||Emmott, C. E. G. C.||Leech, Sir J. W.|
|Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h)||Emrys-Evans, P. V.||Lees-Jones, J.|
|Blair, Sir R.||Erskine-Hill, A. G.||Lewis, O.|
|Boulton, W. W.||Everard, W. L.||Liddall, W. S.|
|Braithwaite, Major A. N.||Gledhill, G.||Little, Sir E. Graham-|
|Briscoe Capt R. G.||Gluckstein, L. H.||MaoAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G.|
|Broadbridge, Sir. G. T.||Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C.||M'Connell, Sir J.|
|Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.)||Goldie, N. B.||McCorquodale, M. S.|
|Campbell, Sir E. T.||Gower, Sir R. V.||Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)|
|Clarry, Sir Reginald||Grant-Ferris, R.||Makins, Brigadier-General Sir Ernest|
|Clydesdale, Marquess of||Gridley, Sir A. B.||Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.|
|Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston)||Hambro, A. V.||Marsden, Commander A.|
|Conant, Captain R. J. E.||Hannah, I. C.||Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.|
|Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.)||Haslam, Henry (Horncastle)||Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)|
|Craven-Ellis, W.||Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton)||Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)|
|Crooke, Sir J. Smedley||Heilgers, Captain F. F. A.||Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick)|
|Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C.||Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P.||Moreing, A. C.|
|Croom-Johnson, R. P.||Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan-||Morgan, R. H.|
|Davidson, Viscountess||Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth)||Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)|
|Davies, C. (Montgomery)||Higgs, W. F.||Nicholson, G. (Farnham)|
|Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil)||Holdsworth, H.||Nicolson, Hon. H. G.|
|Petherick, M.||Salmon, Sir I.||Touche, G. C.|
|Plugge, Capt. L. F.||Salt, E. W.||Turton, R. H.|
|Procter, Major H. A.||Samuel, M. R. A.||Walker-Smith, Sir J.|
|Radford, E. A.||Sanderson, Sir F. B.||Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)|
|Raikes, H. V. A. M.||Selley, H. R.||Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)|
|Ramsbotham, H.||Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree)||Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S.|
|Rankin, Sir R.||Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)||Watt, Major G. S. Harvie|
|Rayner, Major R. H.||Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald||Wayland, Sir W. A|
|Reid, J. S. C. (Hillhead)||Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J.||Wells, Sir Sydney|
|Reid, W. Allan (Derby)||Spens, W. P.||Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)|
|Remer, J. R.||Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)||Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)|
|Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)||Stourton, Major Hon. J. J.||Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.|
|Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)||Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)||Womersley, Sir W. J.|
|Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R.||Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)||Wragg, H.|
|Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.||Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)||Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C.|
|Russell, Sir Alexander||Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.|
|Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)||Tasker, Sir R. I.||TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—|
|Mr. Munro and Mr. Furness.|
|Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple)||Hall, G. H. (Aberdare)||Parker, J.|
|Adams, D. (Consett)||Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel)||Parkinson, J. A.|
|Adamson, W. M.||Hardie, Agnes||Pearson, A.|
|Anderson, F. (Whitehaven)||Harris, Sir P. A.||Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.|
|Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.||Hayday, A.||Poole, C. C.|
|Banfield, J. W.||Henderson, A. (Kingswinford)||Price, M. P.|
|Barr, J.||Henderson, J. (Ardwick)||Pritt, D. N.|
|Batey, J.||Henderson, T. (Tradeston)||Quibell, D. J. K.|
|Bellenger, F. J.||Hills, A. (Pontefract)||Ridley, G.|
|Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W.||Hollins, A.||Riley, B.|
|Broad, F. A.||Hopkin, D.||Ritson, J.|
|Bromfield, W.||Jagger, J.||Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)|
|Brown, C. (Mansfield)||Jenkins, A. (Pontypool)||Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)|
|Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire)||Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath)||Salter, Dr. A. (Bermondsey)|
|Buchanan, G.||John, W.||Sexton, T. M.|
|Burke, W. A.||Jones, A. C. (Shipley)||Silverman, S. S.|
|Cape, T.||Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)||Simpson, F. B.|
|Charleton, H. C.||Kelly, W. T.||Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)|
|Chater, D.||Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.||Smith, E. (Stoke)|
|Cluse, W. S.||Kirby, B. V.||Smith, T. (Normanton)|
|Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R.||Kirkwood, D.||Stephen, C.|
|Collindridge, F.||Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G.||Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-Ie-Sp'ng)|
|Cove, W. G.||Lathan, G.||Summerskill, Dr. Edith|
|Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford||Lawson, J. J.||Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)|
|Daggar, G.||Leach, W.||Thurtle, E.|
|Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill)||Lee, F.||Tinker, J. J.|
|Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton)||Leonard, W.||Tomlinson, G.|
|Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)||Leslie, J. R.||Viant, S. P.|
|Dobbie, W.||Lunn, W.||Walkden, A. G.|
|Dunn, E. (Rother Valley)||Macdonald, G. (Ince)||Walker, J.|
|Ede, J. C.||MoEntee, V. La T.||Watkins, F. C.|
|Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty)||McGhee, H. G.||Watson, W. McL.|
|Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H.||McGovern, J.||Westwood, J.|
|Foot, D. M.||MacLaren, A.||White, H. Graham|
|Gardner, B. W.||Marshall, F.||Wilkinson, Ellen|
|Gibson, R. (Greenock)||Maxton, J.||Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)|
|Graham, D. M. (Hamilton)||Messer, F.||Williams, T. (Don Valley)|
|Green, W. H. (Deptford)||Milner, Major J.||Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)|
|Grenfell, D. R.||Montague, F.||Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)|
|Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth)||Naylor, T. E.||Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)|
|Griffiths, J. (Llanelly)||Oliver, G. H.|
|Groves, T. E.||Owen, Major G.||TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—|
|Guest, Dr. L. H. (Islington, N.)||Paling, W.||Mr. Whiteley and Mr. Mathers.|
Question put, and agreed to.