DEBATE ON THE ADDRESS.

§ Mr. WHEATLEY

The Gracious Speech with which we have been favoured is likely to produce a popular wave of sympathy for His Majesty. A large number of people will regret that His Majesty's constitutional position compels him, even nominally, to be the spokesman of such a Government. The Speech is a monument of political incapacity. Outside this House, to-day there are over one million beggars for work. There are millions of other industrious people who carry on their work from day to day or week to week under the shadow of "the sack." It is as true to-day as it was when stated by Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman many years ago, that the great majority of the toiling population of this country live eternally on the verge of poverty. The Speech which has been addressed to us contains more blame than hope for this worthy section of the population.

The Government seems to have abandoned entirely all serious effort to deal with the problem of unemployment. The Prime Minister yesterday intimated that even the sums which have been granted in the past to local authorities to enable them to carry on useful schemes of work are to be restricted or entirely abandoned. The necessitous areas of this country in future will be expected to live, evidently, by consuming their own tails. The Prime Minister stated that the sums that had 144 been given were really a subsidy to local government. Anyone familiar with the work of local authorities knows that the schemes in which they have been engaged have been schemes of extraordinary worth. They have been works of national improvement and development. I submit that, in work of that kind, necessitated by a problem that ought to be treated as a national problem, it is utterly unjust to throw the whole cost of this national development upon the ratepayers of the distressed areas, for whom, in another part of his speech, the Prime Minister expressed his deep sympathy. It is much better that men should be paid for doing necessary and useful work than for idling and rusting at the street corners. Why should the whole of that burden be borne by the local ratepayers? Why should the section of the community who live from investments and can afford to reside far from the sounds and smoke of industry he allowed to escape from their fair share of a national burden?

We are told in the Speech that there are signs of trade revival. But we are warned that the- signs are small and shadowy. It is stated that since the autumn these signs of revival have been nervously peering round the corner, but have been frightened off by the fear of industrial strife. No attempt at all is made to indicate the cause of this fear of industrial strife. When the question is examined it will be found that this fear is due to another fear, and that the other fear is that the already low standard of living of the working-class population is to be further reduced. If the Government are honest in their statement that the interests of the nation are of paramount importance, it would be easy for the Government to take such steps as would guarantee to these toiling multitudes during the next 12 months that their standard of living will not be attacked. If the Government took such a step, I believe that there would be no fear of industrial strife, and the fact that the Government is not prepared to take such a step indicates that a reduction of wages in the basic industries of this country is of greater importance than the national interest. There is not a day or a week that passes in which we have not rumours of reductions or actual reductions taking place.

145 The competitive system has completely failed as a means of fixing such a standard of wages as will ensure the comfort of the workers and a market for the goods they produce. In face of what is undoubtedly a critical industrial situation, this great Government, with their unquestioned and almost unprecedented power in this House and in the country, refuse to take one step towards a national organisation of wages. Instead, we are treated inside and outside the House by prominent members of the Government with appeals for conciliation: the workers are asked to disarm, to convert their fighting forces into Red Cross societies, to love, honour and trust their masters, and to relegate to obscurity their chosen representatives. This spirit, by a natural advertising sense, is described as "the spirit of Locarno." In my opinion the spirit of Locarno, properly understood, is the spirit that dominates industry to-day. The spirit of Locarno is respect for the strong and contempt for the weak. The Minister who surrendered to the representative of Mussolini is the Minister who publicly insults the Government of Moscow. The friendly hand in France is the mailed fist in Egypt. While we conciliate Germany, we bully India. Our policy in China, has been, not only disastrous to our trade, but has made us in that area the most hated of "foreign devils." As in politics, so with industry.

Reference is made in the King's Speech to the Coal Commission. Does anyone who remembers the events at the end of July last believe for a moment, that we would have had a Coal Commission, or that we would have had any assistance given to the mining industry but for the support from the working-class that was promised to the miners in their hour of need? It was the strength of the miners, it was the extent of working-class solidarity that saved this country from industrial strife in 1925. During the course of a speech yesterday the Home Secretary told us that the miners of this country are at present living on charity. Such a, statement is characteristic of the right hon. Gentleman. It shows the contempt that he has for the working-class and for the intelligence of the supporters he addressed. There is evidently a rivalry for the dictatorship between him and the Chancellor of the Ex- 146 chequer, and we are prepared to see a serious feud during the months that lie before us.

A good deal of criticism has been directed to the amount of public money that has been spent in subsidising the coal industry. Speaking for myself, I regard it as money well spent. When we consider that it has saved the miners, and probably other sections of the working class, from serious and prolonged industrial strife or a substantial reduction in wages, every thinking person must admit that the millions spent in maintaining the basic industries of this country were devoted to a better purpose than they would have been by a reduction in the Super-tax for a small section of the very rich. When we consider this subject, we have to remember, in estimating, that what we have lost on the swings we have gained on the roundabouts. Hundreds of thousands of people who are in employment to-day would have been unemployed but for the assistance given to the coal industry. The output of coal in this country has been enormously increased as a result of the subsidy. I read in a newspaper to-day that in South Wales alone the output of coal since August last has increased by 55 per cent., and that the export trade of that area has increased by 54 per cent. We were reminded yesterday by the right hon. Member for Carnarvon Boroughs (Mr. Lloyd George) that the cheap coal had helped other essential industries, such as the steel industry. I submit that, when we come to make up this ledger, against the £20,000,000 or £25,000,000 to be placed on the debit side we should place the value of the increased output of coal on the credit side in order to ascertain the amount by which the country has been enriched, that we should include the amount which we would otherwise have spent in the payment of unemployment benefit to probably 250,000 miners, and that we have to include the improvement that has undoubtedly taken place as a direct result in other important industries. Whatever may be said by those who stand for pure and unadulterated competition in the fixing of wages and prices, I at any rate consider it to be good sound sense that the surplus wealth of a part of the population should be devoted, when proved necessary, to 147 the maintenance of the basic industries of the nation and the comforts of the people engaged therein.

A good deal is being made of the promised electricity scheme in the Speech from the Throne. The fact that we have to-day a Bill to aid in production, following a Bill that became an Act last year for dealing with the distribution of wealth in a small way, is an admission by the Conservative party of the failure of the competitive system in industry. In the opinion of those of us who sit on this side of the House that competitive system is now obsolete and blocks the path of national progress. In our opinion progress in this country will be made in the future only to the extent to which that competitive system is scrapped. It has ceased to supply vigour to our industries. Why, people in all parts of the House to-day must marvel that with all the knowledge of the present day, in the production and distribution of goods, we are still incapable of so organising our industries as to relieve our community from the necessity of drudgery, and what is almost the certainty of poverty. The Government think that this competitive system can be carried on for a little longer if it is given State crutches to assist it, and the proposed scheme to generate and supply electricity to the industries of this country with the assistance of the State, is one of the crutches on which they expected to shuffle forward for a little longer.

I admit that such a scheme should prove a valuable aid to production. It means we will be able to produce a given quantity of goods by the employment of less labour. There will be a substantial reduction in the amount of coal required for the production of electricity. The whole scheme, from the productive point of view, may be desirable and even magnificent, but it is certainly no step towards a solution of the problem of unemployment which confronts us to-day. There is at the moment: before the country a more pressing problem and a more pressing need. The country requires immediately a comprehensive scheme that will distribute among the working class of this country sufficient purchasing power to enable them to buy goods as rapidly as those goods can be produced. It 148 seems to me the very height of folly to think that you can go on increasing your output of goods or increasing your import of goods without granting to the people who provide the market for your goods a sufficiently large income to keep pace with the production. In our efforts to find a market for British goods, when we are baffled we are always inclined to blame it on the poverty of the people abroad. I submit for the consideration of the Government that British poverty, instead of being the result of unemployment, is the cause of unemployment; that, as I have said before, the trade pipe of this country is choked at home; that while poverty, sentimentally, was always something which we wanted to remove from this country, its removal has now become a national necessity, because poverty at the moment is our greatest national menace. Any Government, and particularly a Government blessed with all the power that the present Government has, which neglects its opportunities to deal with this pressing problem of the distribution of purchasing power among the masses of our people, is false in its declarations of patriotism, and is not one which takes a long or comprehensive view of the industrial situation, and the future of this country; and those who advocate a further reduction of wages are the greatest enemies, to-day, of the people we represent in this House.

Reference is made in His Majesty's Speech to the housing conditions of the people. We are told those housing conditions are now causing the Conservative Government very deep concern. It is characteristic of the deep concern of Tory governments that it always arrives too late. Housing conditions like the other social problems which confront us, are, in a large measure, our heritage from the Tory governments of the past. If the slums of which we are ashamed had grown up under Socialist governments, or if they had been the work of Russian Bolshevists, what perorations we should have heard in this House about the evils of Socialism, and the disastrous results of a Bolshevist Government'. But there they are, a monument to the incapacity of the Toryism of the past, just as this Speech is a monument to the political incapacity of the Tory Government of the present. When I read this Speech, and its professed sympathy with the unfortunate 149 people who are submerged in the slums, I could not help wondering what a saving there would be in human happiness, in human health, in human life, and in national financial resources if the deep concern of the Conservative party for the working class of this country would only arrive in time.

§ Sir FREDRIC WISE

The right hon. Gentleman who has just sat down covered practically every subject in His Majesty's Gracious Speech but he left out one subject which I feel confidently affects the unemployed as much as any of the other subjects dealt with in his speech. The subject he left out was in regard to the Italian debt. I propose to refer to the paragraph dealing with the Italian debt and to various speeches which were made on that subject last night—especially the speech of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Carnarvon Boroughs (Mr. Lloyd George). I am sorry the right hon. Gentleman is not in his place, but possibly he has good reason for not being there, and I refer to it with all due respect to him. I well remember when I was attached to the Peace Conference in Paris being sent to Berlin by the right hon. Gentleman. I remember the fantastic figures which were quoted at that time in connection with the possible transference of debt as between one country and another. I remember the late Lord Cunliffe discussing with me the possibility of claims of £26,000,000,000. By the time I came back from Berlin with my report the amount had been reduced to the still fantastic figure of £11,000,000,000. What absurd figures! I think if the statesmen of to-day had viewed what happened 110 years ago, after Waterloo, possibly the position with regard to international debts would have been more clearly understood. We were in those days a creditor nation. We advanced large sums of money for those days — up to £50,000,000, and eventually we received about £2,500,000, and we only received that amount owing to British bankers being kind enough to discount the bills of Austria, who owed us more money than any other country. Perhaps I may also refer to the war of 1870–71. That was not a world war, but simply a war between two countries, Germany and France. What happened after that war? The trade of France improved, and that of Germany went down, and I am sure that the Labour party anyhow will remember 150 the quotation of Bismarck to the effect that, if he went to war again, he would sooner pay an indemnity than receive an indemnity.

How are international debts paid? That is the main point in regard to this Italian debt; the words used in His Majesty's most Gracious Speech are that the conditions are "fair and honourable." To a certain extent this international finance is divided into many arteries of finance. Before I came into this House it was partly my bread and butter, but these arteries are very difficult to understand and most complex, and even the international financial man may not be able to understand the acceptance of a bill, and so on. But how can international debts be paid? Let me eliminate gold, because I think all will agree that there is net sufficient gold in the world to pay these large international debts. As hon. and right hon. Members may know, there is about £1,900,000,000 of gold in the world, and about half of that is in the United States of America. These international debts can be paid only in two ways: (1) by your exports being greater than your imports, which includes the invisible exports and is really the balance of overseas trade: and (2) by the creditor nation investing money in the debtor nation's property and land. Those are the only two ways in which large international debts can possibly be paid. I agree with the right hon. Member for Carnarvon Boroughs in regard to the Balfour Note. It was sound, and I contend that if it had been possible to have carried out the Balfour Note, it would have been of great advantage to the whole world. These international debts affect trade and channels of trade, and if the Balfour Note had fructified, trade would have been in a better condition than it is to-day.

But what did America do? America introduced the Fordney Tariff in 1920 or 1921, which almost prevents the import of goods into the United States. It makes international payments more difficult than ever they were before. I feel confident that the United States of America will not agree at the present time to cancel these international debts, whatever happens. I cannot help thinking that, as far as this country is concerned, we should find it very difficult to pay our external debt to the United 151 States of £34,000,000 odd if we had to pay it by goods, and we have not the surplus savings to invest very much in the United States of America. We can only keep up our payment of this debt by our Empire being the largest producer of gold in the world. In 1925 the Empire produced 70 per cent. of the gold of the world, and we sent £10,000,000 to America, and in the previous year, when conditions were not quite so good, we had to send up to £30,000,000 practically in payment of the external debt. I agree with the Prime Minister's arrangement in regard to America. He was then Chancellor of the Exchequer, and I feel confident that that arrangement did more good to the trade and confidence of this country than any-thing that has been done to help trade for many years past. The United States think, as anybody will see who has been reading the speeches of President Coolidge and Mr. Secretary Mellon, that they are eventually going to receive vast sums of money from all their debtors. A total of £3,000,000,000 is the amount they should receive over the 62 years of the loans. Does any hon. or right hon. Member think that this is going to be carried out, or can be carried out? I contend that any country may be willing and anxious to pay an international debt, but yet may be unable to buy the currency to keep that payment up. And unless America, with the Fordney tariff, reinvests most of that money in the countries which owe it the money, I feel confident that this large sum can never be transferred across the Atlantic Ocean.

Anybody reading the various speeches that have been made on this subject., and especially in America, will have seen that they all come down to capacity to pay—that is, the capacity of the country that owes the money. It is most important, and I feel that our Chancellor of the Exchequer, in dealing with the Italian debt, considered the question of Italy's capacity to pay. It is necessary in all countries to consider that question, but what I contend is, that so far as this country is concerned, it is even more important to consider capacity to receive. I would remind the right hon. Member for Shettleston (Mr. Wheatley), when I refer to unemployment, that it is the capacity to receive in this country to which we need 152 to look more than the capacity to pay. Capacity to receive means if we receive goods from a foreign country which our manufacturers can make, that our manufacturers will have less work; and as he knows it would lead to more unemployment, and I hope that any Chancellor of the Exchequer who has to deal with these international debts will consider the capacity to receive, so far as this country is concerned, more than or just as much as the capacity to pay.

Now, in regard to the Italian debt, I welcome the arrangement that has been made. It is the first arrangement that we have made with our Allies, and I feel that it has been carried out in a spirit of loyalty and conciliation. The right hon. Member for Carnarvon Boroughs, in his speech of yesterday, said: If we had the same settlement from Italy as the Prime Minister got with America for us, the payment from Italy would be £16,800,000, and after 1933 she would pay us £19,000,000. Exactly the same thing would happen with France. I do not think that the taxpayers of this country are being treated fairly."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 2nd February, 1926; col. 39, Vol. 191.] I am very sorry I cannot agree with the right hon. Gentleman. I contend that the taxpayers are being created fairly, and supposing the larger amount had been arranged, what would have happened? It would have meant goods coming from Italy into this country, and that would have meant more unemployment. If there is one thing that we want to settle as a non-party question it is the endeavour to get less unemployment in our country. I should like to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer—and I am sorry he is not in his place—a question in regard to the £22,000,000 of gold which we have to deliver to Italy. That is hardly a fair problem, considering all the circumstances of the case. I should like to know from him whether, if Italy be unable to keep up these payments, that £22,000,000 goes to our credit. One great point in regard to this settlement is that the amount that Italy has to pay us is fixed. Hon. Members opposite will remember that in regard to the Dawes Report, neither the sum nor the duration of the loan was fixed and I contend that for one country to make an agreement with another country where the sum is not fixed, and the duration of the loan is not fixed, is not business. Anyhow, in this Italian debt the sum is fixed, and that appears satis- 153 factory. If Germany paid two-thirds of her annuities to Italy, the amount would just cover the payment which Italy has to make to ourselves and the United States of America.

The right hon. Member for Carnarvon Boroughs states that the amount is not sufficient. Well, it is 3 per cent. of the Italian Budget, and he should remember that with the lira at 121, and not on a gold basis, it means that the exchange of £4,000,000 a year is a vast amount of lire money. It is different if you take the lira at 25, which is the pre-War gold rate. The Italian adverse trade is really against that country. In pre-War days, the adverse trade of Italy to ourselves was £7,000,000. It is now £1,750,000. That is made good by invisible exports of Italy, such as the tourists, and so on. At the same time, one must realise that it will be very difficult for Italy to pay the sovereigns to make the payment. I contend that the Chancellor has made a good and a fair bargain. The right hon. Member for Colne Valley (Mr. Snowden) in a speech at Burnley on 29th January was reported as saying: I am just about sick and tired of the British Government being magnanimous to all their foreign debtors, at the expense of the taxpayers of this country. I do not understand the late Chancellor, who, I always thought, understood these international payments, making a speech of that sort. Supposing the Italians had come here to meet the British Chancellor, and if the right hon. Member for Colne Valley had been Chancellor, would he have sent them home on the terms suggested? What would have been the position if the Italians had been sent home? Do you mean to say it would not have been against our credit in the City of London? I am sure Government stocks would have fallen. This settlement, whether hon. Members may think it good or bad, gives confidence, and it helps undoubtedly the trade of the country. No doubt the right hon. Member for Colne Valley will be replying, or speaking, on this particular subject, and I hope he will be able to explain how it is possible to transfer more money from Italy than the suggested amounts which are put in the agreement. What is our position? Our position in regard to international loans is this: Supposing France pays us £12,000,000, and supposing through the Dawes agreement 154 we receive £10,000,000 and Italy pays £4,000,000, there will be a deficit of about £11,000,000 between the total we receive and the maximum total we have to pay every year. That is a large sum, but I do contend, that although it may be a large sum, it is a happier solution than to increase the amount beyond the capacity to pay. That is all I wish to say with regard to the. Italian debt. I am sorry that neither the Chancellor nor the Financial Secretary is in his place, but I sincerely hope that if they have to deal with these loans, they will consider the capacity to receive just as much as the capacity to pay.

There is one other point I want to raise, and that is with regard to the rising Government expenditure. I would like to know whether the Government are going to issue to Members of the House of Commons the Colwyn Report with regard to defence. It is, I am sure, a most important report, and I am confident members would appreciate it. We are going to have an Economy Bill, so really I do not think it is worth while discussing anything with regard to that subject. But there is one remark I would like to make, and that is what was brought out by the Governor-General of Canada in his speech at the opening of the House of Commons at Ottawa. He said in his speech:— The consolidation of certain departments involving a reduction in the number of Ministers. I sincerely hope the Government will consider that, because the one thing we want is a reduction of Government expenditure, possibly the reduction of Government Ministers. I do not propose going further with regard to Government expenditure. I feel there will be an opportunity at some future date to deal with that, but I sincerely trust that the Government realise the gravity of this rising Government expenditure, and that they will deal with it in a right and a fair way.

§ Mr. SKELTON

In the few observations which I wish to make to the House, I should like to turn its attention once again to the agricultural proposals of the Government, and I do that for this reason above all others, that although they appear in His Majesty's Gracious Speech in various paragraphs and in some cases in a rather hypothetical tone, these 155 proposals, taken together, represent, in my view, the largest and most constructive effort that has been made on behalf of British agriculture for many a long year. I think, therefore, it would be unseemly for those of us who believe that the constructive capacity of modern Conservatism is by no means exhausted, and will not be exhausted for a long term of years, to let one of these large constructive efforts pass without warmly congratulating the Government on having undertaken this great work in the second year of their life. That great constructive effort, which is outlined in the King's Speech, and rather more closely dealt with in the White Paper which was published last night, bears, I think, in its range, features which justify me in using the phrase "a large constructive effort," for it deals with three main aspects of rural life, and it deals with them in a way which, as I understand, all practical men are in the truest sympathy with.

It is on the three different aspects with which it deals that I wish, if I may, to say a word or two, and in respect of two of them to make to the Government one or two substantive suggestions. These three main aspects are, first, the credit scheme; secondly, the scheme for the improvement of rural housing: and thirdly, the scheme for the development of small holdings. In combination, these three schemes cover almost the whole range of agricultural life. In combination, they will, I believe, if carried out earnestly and strenuously, go far to change for the better the face of the whole agricultural country of this nation.

May I say one word in regard to the credit scheme. It is agreed among all who know the present condition of agriculture that the ready acquirement of cheap credits both for the purchase of farms and for the necessary carrying on of agricultural operations is one of the first necessities. I am afraid I cannot wholly agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Forfar (Sir H. Hope), who seemed yesterday afternoon to make some criticism on that aspect of the case. There is no question that, if you look wide and large over the agriculture of Western Europe, you will find it is based upon elaborate credit schemes, such as land banks, co-operative credit societies and the like, and that the present absence 156 of such an organisation in our country is, it seems to me, one of the great weaknesses of British agriculture, The Government scheme proposes to remove, and I have no doubt will succeed in removing, that defect. On that I say no more. Let me turn for a moment to the question of rural housing, which is mentioned in a more hypothetical way in His Majesty's Gracious Speech.. I hope that that hypothesis will, during the Session, become an actuality, because there is nothing more needed in our country districts, both in Scotland and in England, than assistance in regard to the improvement of rural housing. As I understand the present scheme, it is confined to assistance of the repair of cottages already in existence. That is the way to begin. But I by no means want to be taken as saying that I do not think a full inquiry is not required as to the necessity for further assistance, in the case of farm cottages and the like, for the construction of new houses as well as for the repair of the old. At all events, the first pressing and urgent necessity is for the repair of existing cottages. I am glad to think that that part of the Government scheme has been put forward. If I might for one moment have the attention of the Secretary of State for Scotland, I would beg the right hon. Gentleman, in the Cabinet and in the House, to keep before his colleagues the special needs and special characteristics of Scottish rural housing.

As he very well knows, but as his English colleagues perhaps do not know, there is no question in Scotland of it being possible to repair rural cottages through the instrumentality of the local authority. The subsidy must be given direct to land-owners, or to the owner-farmers. I for one, do not anticipate on fear, any criticism of such a method from the Scottish Members, whatever side of the House they may sit. I am confident that those Members on the Labour Benches representing Scottish constituencies have made themselves so well aware of the conditions of housing among the Scottish farm workers that they will not waste their criticism on the actual direction in which the subsidy should go. They will agree with me, I hope, in saying that, as long as the houses are improved, the actual method is a matter of comparative unimportance. 157 I do beg the Secretary of State for Scotland not to forget that the farm cottages in Scotland require special treatment. There is no part of this country where the rural labourers more deserve, and where their conditions more demand, the careful repair of the houses in which they live.

Let me turn next to the other limb of this large constructive policy, the development of further smallholdings in this country. I cannot but think that this is an essential part of any rural scheme. The facts are so well known and so alarming of the decline of our country population that they absolutely demand that any Government shall make an effort to reconstruct and recall the country population that is leaving the countryside. May I add that in my opinion the question of the success of smallholdings has now gone entirely beyond the experimental stage. Failures there may have been. Failures there are. Failures there will be, as in every other business. But nobody can read the Report on Land Settlement since the War, recently published by the Ministry of Agriculture, without coming to the conclusion that as a whole, and for England and Wales, with which the Report alone deals, the policy of setting up smallholdings has been a success both socially and economically. It is unquestionable that this has added to the country population, and also—which is of not less importance—it has added to the stock carried and the wealth produced on the fields. Therefore I say to the House that the policy of smallholdings is now out of the experimental stage, and the time, has come when the Government may now proceed boldly and courageously with the development of the scheme. Might I also ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if on that branch of the topic he will say, as I hope is the case, whether he is proposing to introduce this year a Scottish Bill equivalent to the proposals outlined in the White Paper?

§ The SECRETARY of STATE for SCOTLAND (Sir John Gilmour)

indicated assent.

§ Mr. SKELTON

I am glad to note the assent of the right hon. Gentleman, because the phraseology of the King's 158 Speech led me to suppose that the only scheme to be put forward related to England and Wales. Therefore, we may take it that there will be a complete scheme both in regard to England anti Scotland?

§ Sir J. GILMOUR

Yes.

§ Mr. SKELTON

May I on that topic say one other word. I earnestly beg the Government, in view of the very considerable degree of success which post-War smallholdings have now reached, to consider the relation between the question of unemployment and the settlement of men on the land. This is a topic upon which a great many foolish things have been said. It is a topic on which a great many hopeless promises have been held out. It is, however, impossible to read the Report on Land Settlement, to which I have referred, without seeing that there is in it data to show that there has been, in particular cases, remarkable successes by small holders, who have come, not with agricultural experience, but with urban experience. I do not say that the evidence is sufficiently wide to allow us to come to a definite conclusion, but if hon. Members will look at the Report, and particularly, the second part of it, which deals with certain specially-successful cases, they will find more than one case of a small holder going direct from urban employment and making a success of his smallholding.

4.0 P.M.

I draw no deduction from these facts. I do venture to urge the Government that there should be a far closer inquiry into the possiblity of selecting, even from the towns, certain people in order to see whether it is not possible, after a small period of training, to restore them to the land. On this aspect I do not venture to be categorical. I think, however, enough has been shown to make it clear that there should on this topic be close inquiry by the Minister of Agriculture and the Minister of Labour. That view is borne out by facts with which Members from Wales will be much more familiar than I am, and about which, if I am wrong, I hope that they will correct me. I understand that in the North of Wales there are certain districts where mining operations are carried on practically by part-time miners, who for part of their 159 time cultivate small holdings. If I am wrong, I shall be delighted if I can hear so at once. But I gather that in certain districts of Wales you have a semi-rural mining population, and that seems to me to give a clue to the topic. That fact, combined with the data in the Land Settlement Report, gives ground for urging that the Ministers of Labour and Agriculture should closely consult as to the possibility of the question of the unemployed being to any extent mitigated by land settlement. It is not a question of positive or categorical statement, but I believe it is certainly one for close and anxious inquiry by the Government.

Scottish Members are grateful that the White Paper issued last night specifically alludes to the admirable and valuable results obtained by the Scottish Agricultural Conference and to the value which that Conference has been to the Government in framing that comprehensive scheme of policy which it has now put before the country. I am delighted that that reference should have been made. The Scottish Conference was a body of great value. They came together, thanks largely to the courage and the initiative of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland, when the English Conference failed. The Conference did its work admirably; it represented every class in the agricultural world, and, as the Member for the Perth Division, I cannot refrain from expressing my thanks that two of the farm servants who sat on that Conference came from my Division, and my pleasure in knowing, as I have heard from the Chairman of the Sub-Committee on which they sat, of the admirable, work which they did on that Committee. The work of that Conference was admirable as a whole. It expresses the view of Scottish agriculture unanimously and universally, and it is a matter of real congratulation to Scottish agriculturists, whether political or economic, that the Government in the White Paper have seen fit to point out that to the Scottish Conference it is largely indebted for the very valuable suggestions that have been given. So far as the policy mapped out is put in hypothetical and somewhat doubtful terms in the. Gracious Speech, I trust that this 160 Session will show that it has been turned into a material fact, because it is of real importance that the agricultural policy of the Government should be put before the country and carried out as a whole in one Session, for thus only will the country realise the vast importance of the agricultural topic with which that policy deals.

§ Mr. MORGAN JONES

I think that in the Debate, so far it has gone, very few of my colleagues on this side of the House can avoid drawing a contrast or a comparison between the attitude of hon. Members on the opposite side of the House to-day with regard to this Speech and their attitude towards the Government of 1924 when they sat on this side of the House. On that occasion, the Government of the day were not in possession of a majority of the Members of this House, and they had been in office only a very short time when hon. Members opposite, and, indeed, right hon. Gentlemen, availed themselves of the opportunity to develop a very hearty attack upon the Government because of their failure to adumbrate proposals concerning various items of social reform. To-day we have the privilege of knowing what is the mind of the present Government with regard to our present discontents, and, if we are to judge from what is contained it the Gracious Speech from the Throne, then I think it is a fair and legitimate conclusion to draw that the Government have very little indeed to say except to commiserate with each other upon the existence of our present discontents. The Gracious Speech begins with a sentence which, I venture to think, is not entirely justified by the facts. It says: My relations with- foreign Powers continue to be friendly. Up to a point I presume that statement may be justified, and indeed one would be very glad if it could be applied to our relations with all foreign Powers without any distinction whatsoever; but one is bound to ask as to what precisely the Government mean by the word "friendly" when it is used in this connection. For instance, one wants to know what is the present attitude of the Government in regard to its relations with Russia. Of course, to hon. Members 161 opposite this is very much like King Charles' head appearing in all our speeches, much, I dare say, to their discomfort. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] But the time has come when we ought to know from the Government what their attitude towards this great nation really is, for so long as the discussion of this problem is postponed, so long will certain sections of our community be condemned to continued poverty and unemployment. We have had it stated from time to time by hon. Members on this side of the House that they represent areas which before the War used to depend very considerably, not to put it higher than that, upon the creation of a market as between their constituencies and Russia. Take, for instance, the question of coal in which my own constituency happens to be interested. In the days before the War, according to a return which I have here, I find that there was exported to Russia alone—speaking of Russia in the present-day sense and not in the pre-War sense at all—in coal, coke, and manufactured fuel something like 6,111,274 tons, and I observe that in 1924 there were exported of those commodities only 37,650 tons. Obviously, it is up to us, whatever our particular political convictions may be, to consider in these days of heavy unemployment whether something cannot be done to restore to our own coalfields this very considerable market which has been lost. Really we are not entitled to use the word "friendly" and to say that our relations with these countries abroad are friendly, if we have reservations concerning huge sections of Europe such as are represented by Russia at the present day.

I want to ask another question. What precisely is happening in regard to China and our relations with that country just now? We have heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Shettleston (Mr. Wheatley) that the deplorable condition of affairs as between ourselves and China has already mulcted our own market in very considerable losses indeed, and it is desirable, right, and proper before this Debate is brought to a close that we should have from some responsible spokesman of the Government some accurate statement as to how far we may look forward with confidence to a resumption of completely harmonious relations between ourselves and China. The question of the Italian debt has already been discussed by other Members 162 on this side of the House, and, personally, I have nothing to say in regard to the matter, except that it does seem to me, if we are going to be asked, as we are asked in succeeding paragraphs of the Gracious Speech from the Throne, to embark on a period of economy, a little unfair to be inviting our own people to undergo a period of economy in the matter of social services while at the same time making the most prodigal gestures towards nations such as Italy.

There is one special paragraph regarding our international relationships in regard to which I would like to say one particular word. It concerns the subject of disarmament. For my part, I rejoice in what was done at Locarno in so far as Locarno makes possible international agreements and the application of the method of international discussions as opposed to war for the settlement of international disputes. But it is utterly impossible for us to contemplate with anything like satisfaction any possibility of disarmament in Europe until we have brought Russia into the comity of European nations. How in the world can we expect, say, a nation like Poland, or any other nation that is contiguous to the Russian border, to undertake disarmament, even in conjunction with the bigger nations of Europe, so long as they have a feeling that there is a larger or a smaller Red Army assembled on the other side of the Russian border? Consequently, it is obvious, in the interests of international peace, in the interests, if you like, of the ultimate success of Locarno itself, that Russia should be brought in, so that disarmament in Europe should be applied to the whole of Europe rather than merely to a portion of it.

My next question relates to the reference to the loan to East Africa. Quite a number of my hon. Friends on this side of the House have been watching with a good deal, shall I say, of disquietude the operations of a certain number of people in East Africa in recent years. Indeed, I do not think it would be an exaggeration to say that there have been episodes in connection with the development of certain portions of East Africa which constitute as dark a chapter in our colonial expansion as can be found in the whole of our history. I am not going to say that applies to the whole of our African Dependencies, far from it. There are 163 portions where the work of our representatives and indeed of our own industrialists has been free from anything of the nature that pertains to Kenya and places like that. But it is desirable, if we are going to be asked to agree to a policy of guaranteeing a loan of many millions of pounds for the development of East Africa, that we should know whether these loans are to be guaranteed in order to help the operations of a number of private speculators or financial pests, to which the Mover of the Address referred yesterday, whether those are the people who are going to get the major benefit or whether the loans are going to be primarily intended to benefit the natives of the areas for which they are made.

We really must make it clear in our minds whether we propose to adopt for our African dependencies the policy which is called "The African policy" or the policy which is call "The European policy." Are we embarking upon the development of those areas primarily in the interests of the natives, or primarily in the interests of the concessionaires who happen to be operating there? If we are assured that this loan is not to be used for the prosecution of the European policy, but is to be used primarily in the interests of the natives, I, for ray part, will be heartily in favour of such procedure.

I come next to the references to economy which I find in His Majesty's Gracious Speech. They fill me with a great deal of apprehension, because I observe that economy is to be directed chiefly at the expense of the vital services of the country, and in particular, I understand, education is to be subject to attention in this direction. I would like to direct the attention of the House for a moment to a Report which was presented by the Committee of the Privy Council for Scientific and Industrial Research for 1924–25. On page 10 the Committee say, referring to a visit of a deputation sent to the United States of America.: A two months' visit was obviously too short to allow of more than a general impression being formed of the trend of events in the Eastern States, and, to a less extent, of the Middle West. But the deputation was greatly impressed by the abounding scientific initiative manifest in many of the industries, especially those of more recent foundation, the widespread popular interest in all scientific questions, and the large 164 number of students in universities and technical colleges who are preparing for scientific and technical careers. If any hon. Member is curious enough to read the Report of the Delegation sent to the United States of America by the Federation of British Industries during last summer, he wi11 find that after they had observed the remarkable development of industry generally they asked themselves this question: "To what is this remarkable industrial efficiency due?" The first reason they give for that industrial efficiency is the remarkable attention devoted to educational development in America. This is a most vital subject for our country. Here we are, one of the leading nations of the world—we have been, anyhow, and doubtless in some respects still are—one of the most wealthy nations of the world, one of the most highly efficient commercially and industrially, and yet in our country at this moment we present a picture of poverty the like of which no other nation can equal. If we are to compete with nations which are highly efficient in every sense, such as the United States of America, it is obvious that such competition can only be adequately maintained by us if our young people—our young engineers, our young students—are sufficiently equipped for that new rivally in business and commerce.

It seems to me this is the most vital subject the House will be called upon to discuss, because if, at this juncture, on account of a transient condition—let us hope it is transient—of poverty and unemployment we are going to lop off, as it were, the very tree of knowledge itself, then surely, in days not far distant, we shall find our own people handicapped in the great race between nations. I beg the Government earnestly to reconsider whether they ought not to abandon their declared policy of cutting down expenditure on education. If we are to economise, surely there are other directions in which we might economise with safety. The right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary has been making speeches up and down the country calling attention to the necessity for economy here and economy there. I would mention one direction in which the right hon. Gentleman himself might set an example to his colleagues. He is spending a good deal of public money at this moment on a service that is referred to as O.M.S. Suppose he 165 saved that money, to begin with. Suppose he assured us that the O.M.S. and secret services of various kinds were being abandoned, and the money thus saved devoted to relieving the nation of the disgraceful stigma of stealing from the children in the elementary schools their copybooks so that others may have their warships and their secret services.

Another matter which I regret very much has not been touched upon in His Majesty's Speech is the terrible burdens borne by various local authorities up and down the country, and particularly in my own part of the country, South Wales. I have in my hand a return showing the rates imposed by local authorities in various parts of South Wales, and it proves how very distressing is the situation in those areas. There is in my neighbourhood a district council which has the questionable honour of levying the highest rate in the whole of South Wales. The rates there do not range at the modest figure of 10s., 11s. or 12s. in the £ the rates in my district—in one portion, at any rate—stand at the colossal figure of 28s. 2d. in the £. If the proposals of the Government are put into operation, then, by reason of the economy on education, by reason of the new proposals of the Ministry of Health in regard to unemployment, by reason of the attempt to foist upon Poor Law guardians burdens which the national taxes ought to bear, that colossal figure of 28s. 2d. may very soon rise to 29s., and even to 30s. in the £. Not only will the rates in those distressed areas rise to a colossal figure, worse consequences will inevitably follow. When the local authorities there desire to embark upon some necessary public service, and go into the finance market inviting financiers to lend money to them, they are told, "What is the use of lending these people money? We cannot give people a loan whose rates are 30s. or 28s. in the £. They are already overburdened with debt." In order to get loans these areas have to pay an exorbitant rate of interest. For instance, one board of guardians have actually had to pay 7¼ per cent. interest for money which they have had to spend in order to cope with problems which the Government ought to have shouldered. It is a cruel injustice and a wicked wrong to allow these areas, which 166 are bearing burdens not of their own creation—if they were I should have said nothing at all, but they are not of their own creation—but burdens foisted upon them by reason of the national unemployment. National unemployment is here because of national politics rather than because of local politics; and I repeat that it is a wicked injustice to allow these people to flounder in a morass of debt, shouldering alone burdens with which the Government ought to have assisted them.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Shettleston (Mr. Wheatley) directed the attention of the House to a fact as to which most of those on this side of the House will cordially agree. He pointed out that there is in the King's Speech no plan, no constructive suggestion, for dealing with the modern problems of unemployment and poverty. I am not surprised. I do not expect from the Tory party anything other than mere Toryism. Toryism never did offer anything in the direction of reconstruction. It cannot be denied that our present housing problem existed in some measure, though not to the present aggravated degree, long before the War, and this in spite of a long period of political power enjoyed by the party opposite.

§ Sir CLEMENT KINLOCH - COOKE

The Liberals!

§ Mr. JONES

The Tory party had at least 15 to 20 years of power before the Liberals even saw office. No one can deny that this housing problem is one of long standing and is with us because of the neglect of previous Governments in pre-war days. Similarly, we found the old policy of laissez faire followed by the Liberals, below the Gangway. To us, from the standpoint of the reconstruction of society as we desire it to be reconstructed, Toryism and Liberalism are pretty well the same and are equally ineffective. Hon. Members below the Gangway would urge that Liberalism has to its credit a good deal of valuable social reform, and I would, perhaps, cordially agree; but, after all, we cannot turn the mill with the water that has passed. Liberalism and Toryism have had their day. Twentieth century problems must be met with twentieth century methods. Our criticism of the King's Speech, as, indeed, of the whole policy of modern Toryism, is that it is trying to meet 167 twentieth century problems with the antiquated Methods of private capitalism. For these reasons on these benches we deplore the absence of constructive proposals so far as the King's Speech is concerned. We oppose those who desire to allow our poor in various parts of the country to fend for themselves, and do the best they can in spite of the awful handicap which the modern capitalist system imposes upon them. Just as in the 19th century we tried to remove some of the evils of capitalism by organising the social conscience of the nation, so we ask that in the 20th century this House should organise the social will and conscience of the nation in order to lay down the foundations of a better and finer co-operative commonwealth.

§ Mr. WARDLAW-MILNE

The hon. Member who has just spoken has ranged in his speech, not only all round the world, as, of course, he was quite entitled to do, but also around the different political parties in this country, and although there is naturally in what he said a good deal with which I do not agree, I would like to say at once that there is one matter in which I find myself entirely in agreement with him, and that matter is the necessity for not unduly cutting down, and possibly not cutting down at all, the expenditure of the Government on education, and more especially on technical education. The hon. Member who has just spoken asked a number of questions to which, in my opinion, he could have supplied the answers himself without much trouble. He asked whether the £10,000,000 loan for East Africa was intended for the benefit of the natives or for the benefit of capitalists and concessionnaires in this country. Surely it is evident that the first object of the loan is for the development of the territories for which this country is now responsible in East Africa. As a result of that development the consequent and one of the most important things from our point of view is that there will be an immediate demand for machinery and goods, which will benefit the trade of this country. Naturally, with this development of their land, there is:bound to be a benefit to the natives themselves if we assume, as presumably we must, that the development of a country and bringing about better conditions of life must necessarily benefit the 168 people of it. It may be said that it is arguable whether it is a benefit to lift certain races from a state of savagery to a state of civilisation, but, if the advantages are admitted, then I cannot help thinking that even the hon. Member opposite will agree that this expenditure will help the natives as well as the people at home.

The hon. Member for Glamorgan (Mr. Morgan Jones) said that Russia was a question which had come before the consideration of the Labour party, and admitted that in fact it had become almost like King Charles' head to them. The reason why the hon. Member does not get the amount of information about Russia which he seems to think the number of references deserve is not because the Conservative party does not wish to see more trade transacted with Russia, but because there is really nothing new to say about the possibility of developments in that direction. It has been very clearly stated by the Prime Minister only a few months ago that this country would welcome as cordially as any other people the day when Russia becomes a member of the League of Nations.

It has been further stated that there is very little possibility of a material improvement in our trade with Russia under the conditions now laid down and existing in regard to that country. The real difficulty of a closer relationship in trade and friendliness with Russia is not in any way caused by this country, but by the simple fact that no one will remain on friendly terms with Russia until she conducts herself in the world in the same way as other nations: that is to say, until Russia ceases to interfere with the affairs of other countries and allows them to manage their own affairs in their own way, just as they are willing and anxious to allow Russia to manage her own affairs in her own way. When that day comes there will be no difficulty about Russia entering the League of Nations and resuming cordial relationships with the other nations of the world. I would not have referred to this subject had not the point been raised, but I have listened so often to this Russian question that I think it is necessary to answer it once more. It is perfectly true that we used to export 6,000,000 tons of coal to Russia before the War, but in 1913 the total 169 amount of exports from this country to Russia was only something like £13,000,000.

§ Mr. MORGAN JONES

The 6,000,000 tons mentioned by me refers to our trade with Russia at the present day.

§ Mr. WARDLAW-MILNE

I was quite willing to accept the hon. Member's figures, but in 1913 the total trade to Russia was something like £13,000,000. I would like to see this country doing £13,000,000 worth of trade with Russia or with any other country, but on this side of the House we feel that there is far too much tenderness shown towards Russia by hon. Gentlemen opposite, and very little consideration shown for the far larger amount of trade which we might develop within our own Empire. Hon. Members opposite surely realise that in considering trade values every man, woman and child living in our Dominions is worth between £6 10s. and £7 per annum to us as a customer for our goods, while every man, woman and child in Russia is worth just 2d., and, under these circumstances, it is not difficult to see where our principal interest in the development of our trade lies. We do not wish to exaggerate the state of things in Russia, or underestimate the value of trading there, but it is necessary for us to secure a very much greater volume of trade, for this is the basis of our future existence and prosperity, and the real outlet lies in increased inter-Empire trade.

I have been rather led away from what I wanted to talk about, but I must make one reference to the unfortunate remarks with which the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Shettleston (Mr. Wheatley) reopened the Debate this afternoon. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will forgive me for saying that I am beginning to associate him with a bitter tongue behind a smiling face. When the right hon. Gentleman makes such alarming statements about China and India I think it would be wiser if he told us upon what foundation he bases his statements. The right hon. Gentleman went on to deal with the necessity for increasing and improving the standard of living in this country, and in that I am entirely in agreement with him, and so is every hon. Member of this House. One of the finest things that could happen is to improve our home trade as well as our 170 export trade, and that can only be done by an improved standard of living, and in everything that the right hon. Gentleman said about improving the buying power of the people of this country I heartily agree with him.

It must, however, be quite evident to him that to improve the standard of living here means one of two things. We are faced with the position that we can reduce our standard of living in order to compete with the countries of Europe in which the hours of labour and the standard of living are lower, or we can improve our standard by protecting our trade and our labour by increased output as other countries have been doing. I entirely agree that the only solution of our troubles is to increase our standard of living by increasing our output, which means using the finest and most up-to-date machinery, the most skilled labour, and the most competent management, we can possibly get. The right hon. Gentleman spoke as if he still believed in the old-fashioned idea that you can keep up home purchasing power by working away with old machinery and by adopting old-fashioned selling ideas. I can hardly believe that he really meant that, but the solution of the problem is to get a higher output, and to do that we must have the finest machinery and organisation we can possibly get. The right hon. Gentleman further stated that the electricity scheme suggested by the Government is not a remedy for unemployment. Nobody would say it was, but by the provision of cheaper power it is undoubtedly a factor in making for a solution of the problem, and tending in the end towards less unemployment in this country.

I think the. House on all sides is indebted to the hon. Member for Ilford (Sir F. Wise) for his speech this afternoon, because he drew attention to a point which is not always readily understood. I do not know what the opinion of American experts is with regard to the possibility of securing payment in gold for the sums due to them, but I cannot see that they will get those sums paid in gold, and I would like to say that the only way in which this country, or, indeed, Europe, can pay these enormous debts, while the present tariff system of America lasts, in gold, is by the finding in other parts of the world, and for our sake we would hope within our Empire, of 171 a large amount of new gold. When the hon. Member for Ilford described the Italian debt settlement as one which was entirely satisfactory, I am afraid I do not go the whole length with him. I agree and appreciate fully the statement that a settlement of any kind is of immense value to trade, and I agree that even a poor settlement is better than no settlement at all. I cannot quite understand, however, why the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not put our position with Europe before America, and our position with America before Europe quite clearly and openly. I am not suggesting that these things were not done in private conversations.

What is our position? Ever since the date of the Balfour Declaration we have in fact been debt collectors for America. We took up the attitude that we would be satisfied by receiving, in the shape of reparation payments, or by direct repayment of loans from our debtors in Europe, an amount sufficient to pay our debt to America. Now we have gone further than that because, as was pointed out to some extent by the hon. Member for Ilford, if we get—and it is very doubtful judging by what appeared in this morning's papers—from France anything like the £12,000,000 she is supposed to be going to pay, and if we get £9,000,000 as reparations, and sundry other moneys from smaller nations, we are still going to be £7,000,000 or £8,000,000 short of the position we took up under the Balfour Note. As a fact, on present reports it would appear that some calculations now being made will end in our owing France money and not her owing anything to us. I cannot say I find that a very satisfactory position, and I am bound to say I feel rather like that famous gentleman who, passing by a churchyard and seeing on a tombstone the inscription that Mary Ann Smith had gone from this world to rest on Abraham's bosom, said, "It's all very well for Mary Ann, but it's mighty hard on Abraham."

That is exactly like the present position; it is all very well for Italy, but it is extremely hard on the British taxpayer. Not only have we come to a position when we are not going to receive a payment from those who owe us money equal to that which we have to make to 172 America, but we are now going to have to bear a burden of certainly £8,000,000, and it may be £18,000,000 or more a year, and America makes no move to help us out of the difficulty. I do not want to suggest for a moment that we should have gone cap in hand to the United States and have said to them, "Let us off our debts"; far from it; and I entirely agree with everything that has been said as to the advantage to our trade from the settlement which the Prime Minister made with the United States Government. It gave a tremendous filip to our trade; it gave confidence; it helped us in many ways, and is helping us to-day. No, I do not in the least suggest that we should have gone cap in hand to the United States, but I do suggest that we should have said to the people of America, who are as highly idealistic as any people in the world, "The position of Great Britain is merely that we are your debt collectors. It is up to you to say how much we are to collect; and we venture to suggest to you that it is not to your interest"—and it really is not to their interest, and they know it—"to press your debtors on the Continent of Europe too hard." It may be said that that is an attitude which no Government could take up, but I am not so sure that it could not have been put, and that the two parties could not have been brought closer together and some round-table conference suggested, before we deliberately took up an attitude that is undoubtedly going to lard the British taxpayer in a payment of something like £10,000,000 a year.

I very much welcome the reference in the Speech from the Throne to the subject of economy, because I think it will be agreed that there is, perhaps, no subject of equal importance before the country at the present time. It is not only a question of economy in Government Departments, but a question of tow and to what extent we are going to be able to relieve the industries of this country of the taxation which is now bearing so hardly upon them. The present situation really comes to this, that not only are our industries paying, as they must in the end pay, practically all the rational taxation of the country in one form or another, but they are paying to an enormous extent local taxation in the form of rates on a scale unparalleled before the War. That is 173 having the result that a large number of people who would ordinarily engage in industry, and would ordinarily hope to become that dreadful person the capitalist, will not engage in new enterprises while the Government is taking 25 per cent. of their profits, if they make any, and paying no share of their losses, if, as is more likely at the present time, they make losses. In fact, they would have the Government, to the extent of 25 per cent., a sleeping partner taking no risks. That is not a position which makes for enterprise or for the industrial supremacy of this country. Therefore, the question to what extent our industries will expand is a very serious one unless we can relieve them of their present burden. If we are to do that, it is essential that we should get in this country a continually widening interest on the part of those engaged in industry, however humbly, in the management and control of the industries themselves. The only disagreement between the one side of this House and the other on this point is not as to the object to be achieved, but as to the manner of achieving it. I think that, if there were a wider realisation on the part of those engaged in industry of the importance of these questions of Empire trade, emigration, international debts, and so on, in regard to the finances of the country, and, therefore, in regard to the success of their own industries, we should hear less of strikes and have less difficulty in dealing with difficult industrial situations as they arise.

I hope the Government will take their courage in both hands in connection with two other matters. The first is in connection with the extension of Imperial preference to develop Empire trade, when such extensions are desirable and necessary. I think it is very essential that we should have the fullest information from our Dominions and Colonies as to what extension of Imperial preference, if any, ought now to be made to bring about an extension of inter-Empire trade. The other is in connection with home industries. I rather regret that there is no reference in His Majesty's Speech to the question of further safeguarding. The Conservative party at the last election made their position absolutely clear, namely, that not only were they entitled, but that they intended, to safeguard the essential industries of this country, if 174 efficiently managed, by means of the Safeguarding of Industries Act or by any other analogous measure. I venture to suggest that the present procedure of the Board of Trade is too cumbrous and too long, and makes it almost impossible for small industries to go through the tremendous amount of investigation which is necessary to enable them to bring their case before the country. I think the procedure ought to be simplified, and I think the Government should face the position. There is no question of their pledges at all; their position was made perfectly clear at the last election. There are several industries that are at any rate on the verge of requiring safeguarding, and I think that the simpler the procedure is made and the quicker these matters come before this House the better.

§ Mr. SPENCER

I am not going to roam over the whole field of this Address, but wish to confine myself entirely to one paragraph. While I endorse to the fullest possible extent the words in the Gracious Speech which refer to avoiding any action which would again postpone the return of good trade, I want to say that I think at the present time the Government themselves are in danger of not preventing a stoppage through their own action in permitting unlimited reduction of coal prices. I am alarmed at the situation, and I was in no sense satisfied with the answer—short and to the point it may have been, but it was in my opinion incomplete—given by the Prime Minister yesterday to the speech of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Carnarvon Boroughs (Mr. Lloyd George). The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Carnarvon Boroughs directed attention to the growing amount of the coal subsidy, and the serious situation that was likely to arise when May came round. He pointed out how difficult it was going to be to get rid of the subsidy, and that difficulty, in my opinion, is being accentuated every month, because the Government have taken no steps to limit the amount of subsidy that is to be given month by month. I have no hesitation in saying that the subsidy has resulted in intensifying competition between the respective districts and that, because there is no check upon the amount that each district 175 is entitled to draw from the Treasury, the first concern is not how much can be saved, but to what extent they can draw upon the subsidy to foster their own trade in their own separate districts.

I would like to draw the attention of the House, in the first place, to the state of the export trade, and to demonstrate to the House that the subsidy is not having the effect of increasing the quantity of coal that is being sold, but that the money is being used to intensify competition, as I have already said, and that all the advantage of the subsidy is going either to merchants or to foreign consumers of coal. In the first six months of 1925, we sold to foreign countries 25,848,443 tons of coal, bringing in £26,912,336, or, in round figures, £1 0s. 9d. per ton. During the last six months, since we have had the subsidy and it has been used for the purpose of stimulating trade, it has not had the effect that one might have expected. It has been laid down as an almost infallible economic law that the more you can reduce prices the more you can stimulate trade. I venture to submit to the House that, if ever that doctrine has been falsified, it has been falsified by the trade of the last six months, since the subsidy was introduced, because the lowering of prices has not had the effect of stimulating trade. Instead of trade being stimulated, we are actually doing less trade to-day at reduced prices than we were when the employers were left to themselves.

During the last six months of 1925, instead of doing 25¾ million tons of trade, we did 24,968,675 tons, and for that we got £23,564,875, or, in other words, we got 18s. a ton. Therefore, we have this fact, that while, in the first six months, when the price of coal was £1 0s. 9d. a ton, we did a monthly trade of 4.30 million tons, we have done, since the price of coal has been reduced to 18s. a ton, a trade of 4.16 million tons monthly. That points to the fact that, once you get a market gorged with any commodity, it does not matter how much further you reduce your prices, you cannot stimulate your trade. If this sort of thing goes on, and if there is going to be this progressive decline in price, I am wondering what is going to be the position when May comes round, and 176 whether, through unbridled competition, with one district fed out of the Treasury competing with another and reducing prices to cover the trade on a less market, the state of things in May next is going to be such that neither masters nor men will be in a position to relieve us of the desperate situation. Therefore, the answer which the Prime Minister gave yesterday to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Carnarvon Boroughs was not at all a satisfactory answer.

5.0. P.M.

To this unbridled competition, this constant reduction of price, which is being balanced by grants from the Treasury, a halt should be called. Those who are responsible for the final sale of coal should be told they cannot go on reducing the price of coal and competing with each other and then coming to the Treasury to have the balance made up. It is putting the coal trade in an impossible position. The same thing is happening internally. The same facts are revealed in the quarterly returns which are issued by the Mines Department. For the quarter ending June, the quantity of coal that was disposed of was 50,087,000 tons, in round figures at 17s. 5d. per ton. That was for the whole of Great Britain. For the quarter ending September it was 50,180,000 at 16s. 4d. per ton. For the quarter ending December, the returns are not out, but judging from the eastern area, we shall find that the price of coal has been reduced since the subsidy was given, commensurately with the amount of subsidy that has been given in each district. The economic fact, therefore, is this: The coalowners, owing to competition, probably cannot help themselves, and will not help themselves as long as they know perfectly well that no condition is imposed on any of them by the Treasury, and this decline in prices will go on until May arrives and then as the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Carnarvon Boroughs said, if the jack were immediately taken out there would be a collapse. I say to the representatives of the Government, "You should put a stop now to this constant decline in prices, which are balanced out of grants made by the Treasury every month." I do not say the subsidy was wrong in the circumstances, 177 but I do say that such conditions should have been imposed that the districts would have known that it was not left to them to be constantly reducing their prices so that the trade in its last state would be worse than its first.

I welcome very much indeed the reference to goodwill and conciliation. No men will do more in the coal trade, or have attempted to do more, to avoid any source of friction than myself and the Members of my own county, and we shall continue to do that. But if we are to have goodwill and fellowship in the industry, then the first condition, from a negative point of view, is the absence of mutual recrimination. It is not a bit of use either in the coal industry or in any other industry for the owners to be charging the men with being "ca' canny." There must be definite evidence of that before any charge is made. So far as the mining industry is concerned, speaking for my own district, I challenge any man to prove that there is any evidence or any proof whatever of any "ca' canny" among the men in my district.

The calculation made with regard to output per man is not a fair calculation when you say that the output to-day, probably, is 17½, 18½ or 19½ cwts. per day. You must first, if you want a real method of calculation, take into account what the men who get the coal are actually getting, and not lump them all together, when you have had to have more surface men and more workers on the road who have nothing at all to do with the coal. If you are dealing with the problem of coal, deal with the men who are getting the coal. As far as my particular area is concerned, we are getting to-day for the whole area: 20½ cwts. per day. But that means that at the coal face the men are getting, not 21 cwts., but two tons, 15 cuts. When we are dealing with this question, whether it is the men or the masters, let us get down to the real facts and state the facts. I say again, if there is going to be good-will and fellowship among us, let us end this recrimination, whether we are guilty of it or whether the masters are guilty of it. It is no use whatever, and performs no useful service as far as the industry is concerned. Recrimination, mistrust and suspicion are the worst elements that you can have in any industry and between any body of men.

178 Then on the positive side, I quite agree with those who say we need co-operation, mutual responsibility, and a disposition to understand and recognise each other's point of view. But what do these things involve? We are not going to get co-operation if we keep financial secrecy in the industry. We are not going to get co-operation if we can have no say at any time in the direction of the industry. I believe it is possible for the employers to bring in the best brains on the workmen's side, to consult them, to work with them, and to put the owners point of view to them, so that the workmen may be able to apprehend and understand the difficulties, financial and commercial, which they are up against. The more knowledge men get of that character, the more you will find that it will be possible to get them to co-operate with you.

A remarkable letter has appeared in the provincial newspapers and in some of the London newspapers from one of the chief general managers of a group of collieries in the county of Nottingham. A suggestion has been made in that letter showing the trend of events among the most enlightened owners. A suggestion has been made that it is essential for the industry that selling agencies should be set up. There is another condition attached, I admit, namely, eight hours, but I do not want to deal with that at all for the moment. The point I want to make is this, that here at least you have got one general manager belonging to a large firm who dares to go outside the ordinary compartment of secrecy with regard to finance and direction of industry, and to make a suggestion that the men should be admitted to that selling board and should have some right with the employers in fixing what the price of coal should be in that district. I use that to make this point, that this is an indication that among the enlightened section of the coal areas there is a disposition to take the men into their confidence and to win their co-operation. If that spirit is stimulated among the rest of the owners, then, as far as I am concerned, I have not the least doubt that, when the time comes to get down to concrete facts, they will find there is a disposition on the part of the great and overwhelming body of workers to avoid as far as possible a stoppage and strife in the coal mines. I say again, the Government must play their part 179 with regard to this particular question. They cannot allow things to drift as they are drifting now, and then suddenly pull us up in May and say that all assistance is going to be withdrawn. Though I admit that, while the Commission is drawing up its Report, and the thing is, so to speak, sub judice, it would be impolitic on the part of the Government to make any pronouncement, I do think as soon as ever the Report has been given and the Government have had time to give it due consideration—as early as possible after that they ought to make known to both sides what their intentions are. If they do that, I feel certain that they will at least give to both sides the definite knowledge that the Government are disposed as early as possible to settle the question and to settle it upon amicable lines.

I want to refer to just one other point, and here I express some surprise that more has not been done than has been done even by enlightened coalowners. I am going to refer for a moment to the question of nystagmus in the mines. A Circular has been sent out by the Home Secretary, who, I find, is not in the House at the present time. To my mind, this Circular starts entirely with a misconception of the general position. It is true that it seeks to formulate a scheme for the treatment of the disease. What we want is not so much to understand the general character of the disease more or to treat it better—those are two important things and I do not dismiss them as of no consequence, for they are of great consequence—but it is far more important that we should prevent the disease. That is the first consideration that should be given to this disease, which is eating into the very vitals of the mining community. Members who have no knowledge of mining conditions would be alarmed to know the extent to which this disease has laid hold of the sight of the mining community. Twenty-five per cent. of the men working at the coal face to-day with safety lamps are suffering from miner's nystagmus in some form or other. This disease is growing. I believe there are no fewer than 7,000 men drawing workmen's compensation suffering from nystagmus. The amounts paid are increasing by leaps and bounds. One could tolerate such a position if it was inevit- 180 able, but medical testimony, which has given due consideration to the matter, has definitely stated that the primary cause of nystagmus is defective standards of illumination. You get a man going into a pit with a candle-power of perhaps 1¼ or 1½. In time the glass is smoked and the candle-power is about a half. On the other hand you have the black surface of the coal absorbing 50 per cent. of the little light there is. The miner is expected to use his eyesight to get coal under such circumstances. The result is that cases are multiplying.

The Committee which has been set up to consider the situation says that if you provide the miner with a lamp of 2½ candle-power nystagmus will be an unknown disease. That Report was presented in 1922. Little or nothing has been done to raise the candle-power of the miner's lamp. I am not going to say the owners have not had difficulty. I am not going to say if they were assured of an effective lamp upon the market they would not purchase it. I know a good many of them have been waiting because the invention is in a state of transition. They do not think they have got to the peak of perfection yet. In my opinion they will not get to the peak of perfection for many a day, and if we are going to wait to get the lamp of perfection we are going to wait many years before we check the ravages of this disease. Why do not the Government now compel the employers to put in a light of a minimum standard, which the medical fraternity say would do away with the disease? It is no use sending round Circulars stating you are going to provide treatment and to learn more about the character of the disease, because already you have the fact that, once a man has had the disease, even if he gets better, no one wants to employ him. My hon. Friend from a constituency contiguous to mine knows that the greatest problem he has from the point of view of unemployment is the man who has been afflicted with nystagmus. No one wants him. He may be healthy and strong, so far as his limbs are concerned, but his eyesight has gone, and it is known perfectly well that if he goes back, once having had the disease, in 12 or 18 months he will have it again as badly as at first. Men with nystagmus go dizzy, and in its worst stages, when they get neurotic, they are taken to the 181 asylum. If we can do anything to stop the ravages of a disease of that kind by providing a better light, it is the duty of the Government to enforce such Regulations as will make it impossible for conditions to exist which contribute to the disease.

§ Major COHEN

I apologise to the House for taking hon. Members from the subject just debated on to another question, which is of vital interest to a very great number of men in this country. I refer to the case of the War pensioners. I remember that sympathy was once expressed with Members who come to the House with speeches in their pockets and have to go home with the speeches undelivered. I think that sympathy ought to go out a little more to a Member who is expecting to be called in some three or four days' time and is suddenly called upon at a moment's notice. I had hoped to move an Amendment to the Address, asking the Government to set up a Select Committee. I understand that Amendment is not likely to be reached, and I am, therefore, very much obliged to you, Sir, for giving me the opportunity, at any rate, of making some of the points I should have made in moving the Amendment. Although it cannot be moved, the need for the setting up of a Select Committee does not seem to me to be any less, We have asked for it, repeatedly in the last few years in any way we possibly could. A Petition was drawn up, signed by something like 800,000 people, asking not exactly for a Select Committee but for questions with which a Select Committee would deal to be dealt with. It is a very difficult thing under our system of government for this House really to show its power. The present Government has a tremendous majority, and I do not think it has any more loyal supporter than I am. But immediately one gets into a difficulty. If one wants to criticise the Government in any way one has to go over to the Opposition, and if it comes to moving anything on which a Division is to be taken, one either has to vote against the Government one is pledged to support, and which one is anxious to support on every other question, or else one has to support the Government and vote against one's principles. Perhaps, for that reason, I am rather glad this question cannot 182 come to a Division, because, while there is no question of any attempt to force the Government, perhaps the Minister of his own free will will agree to the setting up of this Committee, which I am convinced, if it were not for the Whips, not a single Member of the House would vote against.

There are four points I wish to make and I will give an illustration of each. The first is about the seven years' limit. I have raised this question very often here, but I do not think it can be raised too often. No man is entitled to a pension unless he puts in a claim within seven years of the date of his discharge from hospital. The Minister has admitted that in certain cases there may be extenuating circumstances which he is willing to consider, and he told a deputation of the British Legion a short time ago that he was willing to consider individual cases. That seemed to me to admit that there is something wrong when, individual cases have to be considered in such a manner. We have always contended that there ought to be some statutory right. At any rate the final decision ought not to rest with the Minister but with the final appeal tribunal or an independent appeal tribunal outside. That is my main case. The pensioner, I do not say rightly, but naturally, thinks the Ministry of Pensions is against him, and he has implicit faith in an independent body outside. I think the success—and it is a success—of the appeal tribunals is an illustration of that fact. Each area officer, when a man has put in a claim after date, writes back and tells him his claim is out of date, and he does not say anything more about it. Unless that man writes to his Member of Parliament or goes to the British Legion or some such organisation which is willing to take up his case, or may know more about things than the pensioner himself, the pensioner is likely to say, "The chief area officer has told me I cannot do any more," and he does not get his case considered. If other people can take it up it is quite likely the Minister will consider it is an individual case to which special attention ought to be given.

I have often wondered what there is sacrosanct about the figure 7. We shall be told, I think with truth, that in giving seven years we are more generous than 183 any other nation. I am willing to admit that, but I do not admit that generosity is necessarily justice. Men, when they enlisted at the outbreak of the War, enlisted for three years or for the duration of the War. If they are wounded or suffer from disease caused by the War, they ought to be looked after for three years or the duration of their disability. There is no earthly reason why you should stop at seven years. I think a good deal of medical opinion agree with me that certain diseases will not necessarily develop within seven years. There is one case I should like to read out. This was a gunner in the Royal Field Artillery who, up to the end of December, 1925, was an inmate of Netherne Mental Hospital. He was discharged on 20th March, 1918. He was receiving a pension for a gunshot wound in the jaw, gas poisoning and facial paralysis. He had an abnormal amount of treatment and operations. He was wounded and gassed on 16th October, 1917, and operated on for a gunshot wound in 1918. There was another operation in 1919, not successful, and a second for removal of plates. There was a mastoid operation in 1920, which left him with facial paralysis and deafness. He had operations in 1921 and 1922, and was subsequently treated electrically for facial paralysis. In July, 1925, he was removed from Roehampton to Ewell, and subsequently to Netherne, suffering from mental trouble. The claim for mental trouble was rejected owing to the seven years' time limit. It would seem to me not unreasonable, after having all these operations and gone through what he had gone through, that mental trouble should arise, yet because the mental trouble did not develop until after seven years he is disqualified. Whether an outside tribunal might have taken a different view or not, there is no doubt that most of us would feel more satisfied with an outside tribunal.

I come now to the question of the seven years' limit as it affects widows. The Minister can give a maximum pension to a widow in certain cases if the husband has died from wounds arising wholly out of the War. He can also give a modified pension in respect of a man if at his death the man was in receipt of a pension of over 40 per cent. Again, this decision rests with the Minister, and 184 again we should be more satisfied with an outside tribunal. There is a case which illustrates my point. It is the case of a man who was a company sergeant-major in the Royal Engineers. He was in receipt of a pension at the rate of 100 per cent. for bronchitis at the time of his death. He died from cerebral hæmorrhage. Two medical men supported the appeal. One said: In my opinion the cause of death primarily might have been due to the original condition, namely, bronchitis, and the cerebral hæmorrhage a secondary result. The second medical man said: I am of opinion the invaliding disability was a material factor in the cause of death. The maximum pension was refused to the widow because the fatal disability was not wholly and solely due to conditions of War service. A modified pension was refused because the Ministry state that death was not connected with the pensioned disability. There are many other cases which might be quoted.

If the Minister does award a pension to a widow she is barred from any other benefits to which she would have been entitled if the pension had been awarded within seven years. She is not allowed the mourning grant of £5. She is not entitled to any benefit from the Special Grants Committee which would help her in the case of her children having sickness and so forth. She is equally not entitled to an alternative pension. I have a case in point, which I will not read, of a widow who spent a great deal of money on her husband. She took him abroad when he was suffering from tuberculosis, and managed to prolong his life by stinting herself for three years. Had she left him to die two years earlier she would have been entitled to full pension, but because she managed to prolong his life by her devoted care and by stinting herself she is debarred from getting full pension.

Since 1st January, 1922, to the end of 1925, four years, 550,00 final awards have been declared, of which 250,000 were permanent pensions and 300,000 final weekly allowances, varying from 18 to 156 weeks, because the assessment was fixed at less than 20 per cent. The British Legion Members of Parliament have received scores and thousands of complaints respecting men who have received these 185 final awards and whose health has since tone worse. It is one of the most difficult things with which we have to contend that a man can become worse after having had a final award. The Minister always tells us that the ex-servicemen asked for final awards. We did ask for final pensions, but we did not ask for final grants. There is a great deal of difference between a man getting a pension all his life, even though it is not necessarily enough, and a man getting a certain award for a certain number of weeks and then being wiped entirely off the books.

As a result of representations to the Minister of Pensions, the right hon. Gentleman has set up what is called a Correction of Errors Board. This is established at the headquarters of the Ministry, and considers cases referred to it by the Ministry's medical staff, who, during a course of treatment, have observed from the man's condition that a serious ender-estimation of his final degree of disability when the final award was declared. This Correction of Errors Board has the power to decide whether cases shall be reopened or not. Out of 2,095 cases already referred to it, 1,110 have been reopened. To a degree that is satisfactory, but in another degree it seems to me very unsatisfactory, because all these cases have to be considered by the Ministry's own medical officers, and not outsiders. When the Ministry's own medical officers, after observing men under treatment for a month or more, have reported 2,095 cases as suitable for reopening, and when, in spite of that advice from the Ministry's own medical officers, the Correction of Errors Board has only decided to reopen 1,110 cases, it seems to me that if the remaining 900 cases could have gone to an independent tribunal, it is not unreasonable to think that, a very large proportion of them would have been reopened.

This Correction of Errors Board only considers cases referred to it by the Ministry of Pensions' own medical officers of men who have beer under treatment in the Ministry's hospitals. Consequently, if a man applies for treatment and he is not, taken to a Ministry of Pensions hospital, he cannot get the report which is necessary. It is frequently the case that a man may apply for treatment and he is told to go and get treatment from 186 his panel doctor. When he has received treatment from the panel doctor the Ministry of Pensions will not accept the opinion of the panel doctor as entitling the man to go before the Correction of Errors Board.

I should like to say a few words about the War orphans. There are 330,000 orphans from the War; 18,000 of whom have lost, both parents. To these orphans the Ministry is supposed to stand in the position of a parent. That was the country's desire and the country's intention, and yet beyond paying a standard allowance up to a certain age, and extending the age in very few cases up to 18 or 21, the Ministry has practically no plans for the future welfare of these children. I will quote one case which seems a very bad case. It is the case of a girl who is now 16 years of age. Her father was killed in the War and her mother is a most undesirable character. The case came before the Court, and the Court took the girl away from the mother and gave her to the charge of the Ministry of Pensions. The girl is learning the trade of a French polisher and receiving the regular pay of 12s. 6d. per week. Immediately she started to receive 12s. 6d. per week wages her pension of 12s. per week was discontinued. Her maintenance costs 14s. a week. At the present time she is getting in addition to her pay a grant of 5s. per week from the Special Grants Committee, but that is only for a matter of weeks, and will not long continue. Her wage of 12s. 6d. and her grant of 5s. only amount to 17s. 6d., and as her maintenance costs 14s., she is left with 3s. 6d. for her fares, clothing, &c. Obviously, that girl will not be able to continue under such conditions, and she will be forced to go back to her mother, which obviously must be undesirable. If the Ministry of Pensions had not been given charge of this girl the Court would have given her to the charge of the guardians, and I am prepared to say that any guardians would have treated her better. I do not mean what are called Poplar guardians, but any guardians would have treated her better than the Ministry of Pensions.

There is a great deal to be said for the setting up of a Select Committee. None of the questions I have raised are questions of policy: none of them are party political questions. All of them arise from a sincere desire to help the ex- 187 service man, a desire which I am certain is shared by every Member of this House. The Minister of Pensions, I am afraid, thinks that the Select Committee would do a lot of harm by tearing up the warrants. I do not think they would. Members of this House are supposed to be intelligent men, and they would not tear up a warrant unless it were necessary, and if necessary it ought to be done either by them or by somebody else. I do not know whether the Minister will reconsider what he said last year, but I have every hope that he will. I assure him that I do not wish to embarass him or the Government in any way. I do hope that, if he can, he will see his way to assent to my suggestion and to give the ex-service men the great satisfaction of knowing that there is a Select Committee of this House going into all their troubles.

§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

The House has listened with very great sympathy to the hon. and gallant Member for Fairfield (Major Cohen) and hon. Members will look forward with interest to the Minister's reply. I am sorry that the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not hear the speech of the hon. Member for Ilford (Sir F. Wise), to whom I apologise for my absence during part of that speech, because I was called out of the House. I listen to the hon. Member for Ilford whenever I can, because it is a pleasure; but the Chancellor of the Exchequer ought to listen to him as a duty, and it ought to be a pleasure to him also. I very much doubt whether the speech of the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Wardlaw-Milne) would have given pleasure to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

I should like to support what has been said by the hon. and gallant Member for Fairfield respecting the appointment of a Select Committee to look into pensions cases. There are far too many of these administrative cases, and the Minister must realise that. We always get proper attention when we bring forward any cases, but hon. Members must agree with me that there are hundreds of cases that the Minister cannot possibly know about. That shows that there must be something wrong in the administrative details of his department.

In common with a good many hon. Members I am very disappointed with the declaration of the Government in many 188 respects, particularly their attitude of insensibility to the unemployment problem. They have a huge and a very docile majority, but they do not produce any new measures for dealing with this growing evil. It is a growing evil, apart from the numbers of people who are unemployed, and the longer it lasts the more demoralising must be the effect, especially upon the younger generation. I cannot understand how Ministers can be so complacent, when they know that every week hundreds of boys and girls leave school and at once join the ranks of the unemployed, to share in the moral and social results which follow.

The only measure that the Government talk about that can do anything to relieve unemployment—I am not speaking about small holdings—is the proper organisation and development of the electric supply of the country. That is long overdue, and ought to have been dealt with when the former Conservative Government, under the present Prime Minister, was in office. I am informed, on very good authority, that if we had a trade revival at the present time we have not enough electrical power for the factories that would then be required. There is not enough electrical power available if we had our pre-war trade restored, and our trade increased proportionately to what it was in 1914. Under those circumstances we should not have the electrical power that would be required to enable us to carry on.

Much the same thing applies to our means of transport. In some of the East coast ports they can only just handle the trade that exists, while in regard to railways and wagon facilities they would not be sufficient if the country was restored to normal production and we had normal export trade. That is a very scandalous state of affairs. During this time of unemployment we should have taken these schemes of development in hand. I am sorry to say that successive Governments appear to have become hardened to this problem. They keep on waiting for something to turn up, and nothing turns up. We are told in the King's Speech that there are only very slight signs of trade revival, and yet they are going on with their policy of drift and hope.

I come now to the question of Inter-Allied debts. I believe the country has been shocked by the arrangement come to with the Italian Government. That 189 arrangement has given a severe blow to the confidence of the business community and of thinking men and women. We have been badly let down; it is no use mincing words. I cannot help thinking that there must be something behind it, that there is some political force at work which has caused this extraordinary arrangement to be come to with Italy. It will not stop with Italy. The French, apparently, are now going to ask us for reconsideration of the very generous preliminary arrangement made with them. Small blame to them! They may just as well