§ The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, that the house should go into a committee of supply, and that the Irish miscellaneous estimates for various schools, charities, &c. should be referred to the committee.—Ordered.
proposed the usual annual giants. He stated, that he would postpone any of them on reason assigned.
Mr. M. Fitzgerald
hoped he would postpone the whole, as the papers were not yet printed. He objected particularly to the grant of 1,200l. for 250 copies of the statutes for the use of Ireland, on account of the negligent manner in which they were distributed among the magistrates.
agreed with the right hon. member as to the irregularity of the distribution, and promised to attend to that subject; but this was merely for 250 copies for the use of the public offices. He saw no reason for postponing the whole of the propositions.—The grant was then agreed to.—On the proposition for grants to various clerks in public offices,
§ Mr. Biddulph
observed, that no statement had been made respecting their necessity. He thought that some explanation ought to have been given as to the insufficiency of the salaries of these officers, before these sums were voted by parliament.
also stated, that the sums had been always allowed by the Irish parliament, and that the officers looked to them as part of their emoluments.
§ Mr. Biddulph
would not oppose them now, though he was not quite satisfied with the answer, and would inquire further into the subject.
observed, that the hon. gent, might find in the journals what these officers had done for the grants.
§ Mr. Tierney
said that the question was, whether their regular salaries were not a compensation for their trouble? If they were not, he thought that an addition to their salaries would be a better mode of rewarding them than these annual votes.— The grants were then agreed to.
§ Mr. Parnell
wished that the grant of 23,103l. to the incorporated society of Dublin for the encouragement of protestant chartered schools, should be postponed. The reason he gave was, that a document which related to this grant had only come into his hands as he was entering the 9 house. This was a catechism which was put into the hands of the children, having a tendency to encourage religious animosities.
hoped the hon. gent, did not wish to prevent this charitable institution from receiving the necessary supplies for the present year, because he objected to the principles on which it was founded. These might afterward undergo alterations, but the present grants were absolutely necessary.
§ Mr. Tierney
thought the matter might be compromised by granting a small supply for the present, and afterwards, when a larger supply came to be voted in another committee, the subject might be thoroughly investigated.
said, he did not fee] at all surprised to perceive the hon. gentlemen opposite anxious to oppose the prosperity of the Protestant establishment. This establishment was solely for deserted and helpless children, who were, in consequence of their forlorn condition, received into these schools, and educated in the Protestant religion. During the vice-royalty of the duke of Bedford, these schools had been subjected to the examination of a committee, by no means overstocked with Protestant zeal. Their report was highly favourable to the institution. The grant had been uniformly made, for 50 or 70 years back, without any objection. The catechism in use, he believed, was the usual Protestant catechism, set forth in the Rubric, and was calculated to correct the political errors of the Roman Catholics, which were founded on their monstrous religious tenets.
§ Mr. Parnell
said, the catechism was very different from that in common use. The first question in this catechism, he stated, was, 'What religion are you of?' To which the child was taught to reply, 'I am, thank God! a Protestant.' Such opinions were merely calculated to revive all those latent sparks of animosity, which, but for the culpable industry of some, might have long since been extinguished. The whole system of education in those schools, he maintained, was destructive to the peace and tranquillity of that people, who had been too long and too lately reminded of those mischievous and unfounded assertions, those envenomed calumnies, and antiquated stories, which had hitherto been employed most effectually as the means of exciting those against each other, whose natural benevolence of dis- 10 position must have, in the ordinary course of things, led them to unite in peace, concord, and the common cause and general welfare. He was happy, however, to find these calumnies and gossippings seemed of late rather to be confined to that house. He should not have any objection to the present grant, but he nevertheless thought it his duty to State his intention of bringing the whole establishment very shortly under the review of parliament.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer
thought the opposition of the hon. member, even supposing he had the document to which he wished to refer the house now in his hand, perfectly irregular, since there could be no motion made in the committee for the reformation of the general establishment.
Mr. M. Fitzgerald
maintained, that the antiquity of these establishments and grants were alone but sorry reasons for their continuance. Many others, which had commenced nearly about the same time with these, loudly called for abolition. It was not the character of the lower order of Irish to neglect their children, nor were the Catholics of Ireland the most prone to commit this unnatural crime; they had at least the feelings and humanity of men, if they had not their political advantages. He maintained, that the children educated in these schools were not proper objects of charity. Their education and temporary support were too often made the means of purchasing them perhaps by the inadvertence of their parents, from the religion of their forefathers. Hence whatever pains might be taken, there was not above one-fifth of those who received their education in these schools, who were added to the number of the established church. It was, then, a great delusion held out to parliament to suppose the supplies yearly granted for this purpose were in any degree proportioned to the advantages the country received. In most Catholic and remote parts of Ireland, those schools had been much on the decline, while they had proportionally increased within the vicinity of Dublin.
§ Mr. Elliot
rose to justify the character of the board appointed under the government of the duke of Bedford. By enumerating some of the persons who composed that board, he thought he could justify them from any intentions hostile to the established religion. These were the primate of Ireland, the provost of Trinity 11 College, Dublin, the chief justice, and several others connected both with the government and the established church.
said, the evils of Ireland were of a particular description, and arose from the prejudices of the lower order, and the mischievous principles disseminated by misguided and depraved characters of the higher order. The publications of the day were fraught with the venom of party; and a late pamphlet published in Dublin by an association of priests, to the amount of 110, had set forth a detail of all the flagitious and criminal misrepresentations of the conduct of England to Ireland. When such extravagancies were committed without reprehension, he was almost surprised to hear there existed in Ireland an Attorney-General.
§ Mr. Parnell
thought these works, if they did exist, had been published by way of reprisals; many of a Very inflammatory nature having been published on the opposite side of the question, by the friends of the learned doctor. He had still, however, to congratulate the country, from the disposition betrayed by the learned doctor, that he did not fill the situation of Attorney-General for Ireland.—This Supply was also granted.
§ The house then resumed; the report was brought up, and ordered to be received to-morrow.